Ep. 277: The Psychic Renaissance

[00:00:03] And I just turned around and I pulled ass out of there. I was done. I wasn't dealing with that. The hypocrisy of the cult is one of the things that turned me away the quickest. When I turned my headlights on, it turned and looked at us. And one of the things I remember the most were the eyes were glowing red.

[00:00:30] I see a orb of light. It is just circling these steps like it is waiting for me. He begins to tell them that he saw a UFO. They're basically like, what are you talking about? That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it. And that's where I saw the top of the muzzle, nose and the eyes.

[00:00:58] As soon as I made eye contact with this thing, it felt like death. Welcome back to Tinfoil Tales. Tonight we're joined by my guest, Katie Jo. You were on here about three years ago. So welcome back. Thank you. And hopefully we don't have any three letter agency disturbances this time. I think last time we got disconnected a couple of times.

[00:01:24] That we did. And hopefully we don't just have another incident like I just did where a fly just went in my mouth when I was speaking. Oh yeah. Yeah. Hopefully not. That's the most disgusting thing that I think has happened to me on this show so far is a fly flying into my mouth. Hey, if that's the most disgusting thing that happens on this show, I mean, you're sitting pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. I guess no complaints after four plus years.

[00:01:51] Yeah. Hey, I think actually the last time we saw each other was at the Goatman Festival. How did that all go for you? It was an experience. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't really amazing. Like I met some people and I got a couple of people for interviews, but it was just kind of not really a lot of traffic for me. If that makes any sort of sense. Like I didn't really, it's weird because when I do these events, I'm basically like my own brand.

[00:02:21] So people will come up there and like, Oh, that's a cool shirt, but it's got my podcast name on it. So they're like, well, I don't know your podcast. What are you? So they don't necessarily buy things. And then it's mainly just me paying to promote myself. Gotcha. Are you still doing the convention circuit? Yeah, I'm actually doing one this week here by the time this airs a lot, obviously been over, but I'm doing one here locally. Oh, cool. Are you going to scare fest this year down in Lexington?

[00:02:50] No, I, the only ones I have coming up are, I've had this local one here and then I'm doing the Indiana Bigfoot. The Bigfoot conference at the end of September. That's a national Indiana. Oh, that'll be fun. And that's such a pretty area. And then I have a couple other ones around Indiana. I got the Crawfordsville paranormal convention. I've got PariUnity, which is local, but then there's cryptic con I'm going to be at that one.

[00:03:19] That's in, it's actually in Indiana this year. It's usually in Lexington, but now it's a, I can't think of the town, but it's down right on the state line. Oh, I'm down here. Let me, you said cryptic cryptic con is in Indiana. Yep. Oh, is it? It's in Florence. Okay. That'll be fun. That'll be really fun. There's a lot of big celebrities on that one this year. Yeah. Anyone you're like most excited to see.

[00:03:47] Most of them I've actually already saw and been around the only one I really haven't seen is Aaron from ghost adventures. Oh, he's going to be there. That's going to be exciting. Yeah. He's going to be there. I know, uh, Giorgio Succolos. He's like the big main guy that they had a couple of years ago. I, he was actually pretty cool. He talked to my wife and I, and he got on the cell phone, did FaceTime with her uncle. And he's a cool guy. I would love to have coffee with him sometime. I have so many questions.

[00:04:16] Yeah. First of all, my biggest question is the hair, but I didn't want to ask. I'm sure. I, I think you should. I think if you see him again, you should totally ask. Yeah. Well, we'll definitely be seeing him again. Cause I say he'll be there this year at a cryptic con. And then there's one more event that I'm not sure about cause I haven't heard any more information, but I'm supposed to be at called East Fest.

[00:04:40] And that is down in Kentucky. And I can't think of the name of the town it's at, but it's the first year for it. And it's all about the LBL. What, what is that? I'm sorry. I don't know what that is. That is a very big hotspot. It's the lane between the lakes and the claimers, a lot of cryptid activity there. Oh my goodness. And Brandon, I totally saw your post earlier about the cryptid that you've seen that you haven't heard too many other people have seen.

[00:05:09] Um, I used to be a professional boy scout and there is a boy scout camp that was called Roy C. Manchester that is on land between the lakes and get this, this is ridiculous. So there's a society, there's an honor society within the boy scouts of America called the order of the arrow. And when they do the initiations down at land between the lakes, one of the things, and this is no secret, you can buy like, you can buy the books on what happens in the order of the arrow.

[00:05:39] It's supposed to be kind of like a mini secret society, but the information is out there cause their kids and their parents need to know. But as part of your initiation, you do like a day of silence. And then that night they put you on a, like a truck bed, drive you through the camp that is on land between the lakes.

[00:05:59] Like you are on the, you are in prime dog man territory and they drop the kids off like half a mile apart from each other. And you have to like stay the night in the middle of the woods, no tent. I think you get a tarp and a sleeping bag and that's all you get. That's a no for me.

[00:06:21] That sounds, I learned about the dog man research after going down there and I was like, this sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen. Yeah. I, I did my documentary. So I've been out in the woods looking for these things and some of the stuff that happens, obviously I was not in the LBL.

[00:06:44] I've been up here, but just the stories and the vastness of some of those areas, I would be more afraid of getting lost or snakes or stuff like that. I know is actually there rather than looking for these monsters around the woods. Right. The bears are pretty intense too. Yeah. We don't have bear up here supposedly, but I've been hearing people say they've seen one recently, not too far from where I live. So I was like, well, maybe that is the dog man that people have been seeing.

[00:07:14] Oh, and you're up in Northern Indiana, right? Yeah. I'm up in North Central Indiana. So about 70 miles North of Indy. Okay, cool. I'm on the opposite. I actually just became a citizen of Louisville, Kentucky. So I'm, I'm very geeked about that, but I had been a diehard Indiana Hoosier for my whole life. Um, and it's, it's very interesting having moved from Indianapolis down to Kentucky, what different lore exists in different regions.

[00:08:10] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I mean, that all sounds fun. And if you ever get the chance to come to or present or anything at Scarefest, like it's huge. I, I would highly recommend it. If you haven't. I actually submitted my documentary for Scarefest. I never heard anything else about it. Oh gosh. Okay. Um, have you ever, so, um, I've spoken at Scarefest for like the last five years now.

[00:08:38] Um, have you ever submitted a speaker application? I feel like you have talked to so many people that it would be so cool to hear some of the stories that you've collected over the years. I have not. No. Oh, it'd be so fun. So fun. I think they, they had 75,000 people last year. That's insane. It's insane. It's insane. I would definitely be interested in something like that, but I, I don't, I'm not a hundred percent familiar with Scarefest.

[00:09:05] Scarefest, I know when I was doing my documentary stuff back in the spring, I was submitting it to different festivals. I think it was one of the ones I had to pay to submit to them, but I've never heard anything back from them. Gotcha. And is your documentary like out? Is it out? Like, can we see it? Yes and no. So it has been picked up by a distribution company out of Hollywood and it is supposed to be released in September on their specific YouTube channel, but it's going to be on Amazon Prime and Tubi and all those other platforms.

[00:09:35] And it should have already came out. I thought because in the beginning of June, they said it would be about six weeks. Well, it's been over six weeks and it's still not out yet. So I don't know what's going on with that. I don't have anything to do with that part of it anymore, but I do have, I have physical DVD copies. So I had kept my physical rights so I can sell my copies at my booths and stuff. But as far as the streaming stuff goes, that's all being handled by a different company. Oh, how cool.

[00:10:04] I've always wondered how that worked. I had no idea how it worked until I just figured out how to get involved in it and did it. Just like podcasting, I always just go in and have no clue what I'm doing. Well, do you want to go ahead and hop into some other spooky stuff? Whatever you would like to discuss tonight, I will turn it over to you for a little bit and we can dive into it.

[00:10:34] Okay, awesome. Well, first of all, thank you for having me on and thank you for giving me the lowdown on your documentary and Land Between the Lakes and all the conventions. I have really taken a liking to the convention circuit and the people I've met through it have been amazing. So one of the things that my group, Boo812, does is we do remote viewing sessions where we let people kind of flex with remote viewing.

[00:11:04] And should I give kind of like, have you done a remote viewing episode? Should I give kind of like a surface level what it is? Yeah, you can. I've had a couple different people talk about it, but I always look at each interview, like for each specific episode of someone brand new has just come across the show. So they might not have any idea what it is. Yeah, okay.

[00:11:24] Well, so a very, very top level explanation of remote viewing is people who are not in one place or not privy to certain knowledge being able to have that knowledge in their own brain and regurgitate it. And that's very, very superficial. If you deep dive into some of this, they will dissect it in a hundred different ways.

[00:11:48] I think the last time I was on here, we might've talked, I think we talked about psychokinesis and around the same time that the psychokinesis studies were being done, the remote viewing stuff started to get popular. And now that stranger things has come out, there has been an uptick in popularity of studies about remote viewing again.

[00:12:14] So we're having like a little psychic renaissance and I do give some street cred to stranger things because they, the whole like season where 11 is in the lab is very, very similar to kind of what the Rhine Institute and what the different, the different research institutes were doing.

[00:12:37] Of course it's glamified for Hollywood, but if you ever get the chance to go to like North Carolina and Duke university and get into the archives down at Duke and go to the Rhine Institute, you can see almost the exact machines that they blew up to like a hundred times in size that they used for stranger things.

[00:13:00] It's really, it's really, really fascinating.

[00:13:30] No one else on our team. No one else from whatever, whatever place that we're investigating knows about. And we'll break out some whiteboards and say, Hey, get into my mind. Tell me if you can say what picture I'm looking at or what picture I have drawn.

[00:13:48] And we have had a surprising amount of people be able to guess every single time and like almost draw the exact pictures, which is fascinating because it really shouldn't happen.

[00:14:05] And a lot of these studies have been subjected to the file drawer effect, which in academia, the file drawer effect is like, hey, this study has been done, but we don't really want to look at it because it conflicts with some of our other existing beliefs in academia.

[00:14:24] So now that I'm working on my PhD, I am seeing where that's coming out in some not so psychical, not so glam departments, I guess. But remote viewing in particular, with it having its little renaissance, I'm very, very excited to see how this, really excited to see how the academic research for this continues to grow.

[00:14:54] And out of curiosity, have you had anyone on here from or talk about the Monroe Institute? Not that I remember. The only people that I were vaguely, obviously I've talked to almost 300 and something people now. Right, right. I talked to a lady from Australia and she talked about remote viewing for military stuff.

[00:15:22] And there was another guy and they talked about secret space program stuff. So again, I don't, it wasn't anything Monroe. I know someone talked about Montauk, which again, that's a conspiracy in itself. Right, right. Well, so the Monroe Institute is a private nonprofit that is a consciousness exploration organization. So it's not a government laboratory. It's not really affiliated with any academic thing.

[00:15:47] But there was a private donor who really cared about exploring consciousness. And in their terms, consciousness is such a hard thing to define. And the Monroe Institute, what they do is they define it as anything that is just outside yourself. So stuff like using binaural beats to help people meditate. They do out of body experiences. They explore some near-death experiences.

[00:16:18] But they use, have you heard of the Gateway Program? I think so. That is, that's almost like the, I'm thinking of the Gifted Program. I'm going to say, that's where they look for kids that were, had like some sort of extrasensory or something like that, wasn't it? Yeah. And funny story. So you had brought up my boyfriend before we went on.

[00:16:48] He was a gifted and talented kid. And so was I. So I'm very curious. And I've heard a lot of the like social media rumblings about that being a governmental program. And I'm so curious. Do you, I mean, do you, have you, do you know anyone in the GATE program? I don't specifically know of anyone, but I know my daughter was, she's in the Gifted Program at school. So I don't, she's only going into second grade.

[00:17:15] So I was leery about it when they claimed that she was on the higher level and they made her take some sort of a test. And she'd come back scoring high and said she's going to be in the Gifted Class. I was like, wait a minute. I was like, I know too many conspiracies about this. Just keep her away from the pink drink and you'll be fine. From what I hear. We used to have like hibiscus tea and they told us it was like a little French tea. And so we'd have that in our class.

[00:17:41] But so, so that's the GATE program in like public schools. But the GATEway program is like, it's a structured way that the Monroe Institute has said that we can access extended consciousness. So they basically put you into a meditation state. They get those binaural beats going.

[00:18:07] When they put you into like a hypnosis with sound and visualization exercises. And then you have an intent. And so that's where people kind of explore that out-of-body experiences. And they start affirming for themselves what they're going to see. And it's a really interesting thing. I would love to go visit Monroe Institute. But it's, I'm starting with the piece that I know the least about right now.

[00:18:37] But it is really fascinating what can happen when you get like a large donor who cares about these kinds of research techniques. So it makes you wonder like what other little institutes are going to pop up to explore these consciousness, psychokinesis, out-of-body experience kind of things. But academia is really kind of my realm.

[00:19:04] And so there is, I think, I think the dialogue on social media and within the paranormal community is very, it's very separated. Like you have the academics studying paranormal phenomenon. And they won't, they generally don't call it paranormal phenomenon because at some point it becomes scientifically validated and it graduates kind of into its own area of science.

[00:19:34] But then you also have the people who are not on the academic side who are doing similar like citizen science kind of projects. And I wish we just collaborated more because it would be so cool. If we could combine our efforts and really do more, that would, that would be awesome. And I think we'd figure out so much more.

[00:19:56] But for any of your listeners who like might be looking for actual academia things, or if you have anyone who's looking at like colleges that have programs like this, the University of Virginia has a division of perceptual studies. And they call it DOPS. And it was started in 1967. And it is in the Department of Psychiatry and Neurobehavioral Sciences.

[00:20:24] And all the things that they study are like children who report having past life experiences, near death experiences from a medical standpoint. Hospice care is one that's really interesting. So like the things that we all experience on our deathbed at a global schedule. Sorry, I'm getting tongue tied because I'm getting excited. The things that we experience as we are dying tends to be kind of a global phenomenon.

[00:20:54] So you tend to have people do the reach, like they'll stick their hands up in the air. People get the surge where they have been bed bound for months. And then all of a sudden they're up looking around and out of bed. They seem like they're healing. Well, unfortunately, that surge means generally within the next 72 hours they're going to pass.

[00:21:16] But the DOPS program also does mediumship and out of body experience kind of phenomenon. And altered states of consciousness. Which I think is a fascinating and rapidly growing area of study. Now, in terms of all of that, I know remote viewing is where we really want to talk about.

[00:21:45] Right now, there is an app. There are a couple of remote viewing apps. Do you use any of them by chance? The only one that I remember having, and I can't think of what it was called. This was several years ago. And it was the owl on it. Which one was it? It had like an owl as like the logo. And it would actually take you, it wasn't remote viewing, but it would actually take you to areas of interest.

[00:22:13] And I don't remember what it was called. But a lot of people claim that when they use it, they came across someone said that they found a dead body. Which I don't know if that was true. It could just have been a Reddit rumor. Who knows? Are you talking about Randonautica? Yes. Oh my gosh, that was such a cool app. I don't even know if it's even around anymore. It is. It's just behind a paywall now where it used to be free and you could go run around to five or six different locations before it charged you.

[00:22:41] Now it charges you immediately. Okay. I said I had it probably like six years ago and I was trying to find some places, but everywhere it was trying to get me to go was like on private property. Oh yeah. That's a big problem in Indiana. But yeah, somebody did actually find like a dead body and I think it was in like a luggage case or something while they were doing the Randonaut stuff. Yeah. I don't know about the remote viewing apps and that's the only one I remember having.

[00:23:08] I don't really do a whole lot when it comes to like the apps and stuff because maybe I'm too much of a conspiracy person, but I don't want everyone having all my information. That's totally valid. That's totally valid. So one of the apps that I use is RV tournament and I'm really bad at it. Oh, sorry. We've got cats going on in here. If you heard that loud crash.

[00:23:33] But so RV tournament, it's remote, remote viewing tournament is actually collecting information from its participants and you have an all time score and you have a monthly score. And so they do practice rounds and then you have an actual like today round and it will give you a set of numbers. They might be coordinates. They might not be coordinates. It's just a set of numbers for you to focus on.

[00:24:00] And it gives you a blank screen that lets you draw, that lets you type things. It lets you kind of do it. It gives you like a blank screen to draw and write whatever impressions you're getting. So, for example, today it says 1732 and then it has a hyphen 4754.

[00:24:22] And so if I'm looking at that and I'm just getting the impression of like scales or something, I would draw the actual scales. And then if I'm getting the sense that there might be like a lizard, for example, that's the first thing that popped into my brain. I would write lizard. I'd write any color impressions I'm getting. I would draw the texture of the scales and then I would hit submit. Then it presents to you two different images.

[00:24:50] And sometimes you might be getting scales, but it might show you a picture of a brick house. But those textures are similar enough that you can choose a match between the two pictures. So, for today, I've got, I was thinking scales. My picture is a camel and a book. And neither of those really lines up. So, I would call that a total miss. Granted, I am not focused at all on this right now.

[00:25:19] But then it lets you choose like your level of confidence that you've got it right. Then the next day, after everyone who uses the app has had the chance to submit, it reveals the picture to you. And it is absolutely bananas how many people are just incredibly good at this with relatively no training.

[00:25:44] So, this app is actually connected to, oh gosh, I'm trying to figure it out. They've changed it just a little bit. They collect information on like your Myers-Briggs personality type just to see if there's a correlation there. Are you an introvert or an extrovert? They try to see if there's a correlation between that and your remote viewing abilities.

[00:26:10] One of the questions that's kind of a curveball is like, did your family move to a different home when you were a child? So, I'm really curious to see what studies actually come out of this app. But it's been active for I think about 10 years at this point. And it's not the only one like this out there. There's a couple others that will let you like flex your ESP.

[00:26:36] One of them is, oh gosh, I think it's like Star ESP or something. There's ESP Trainer and Stargate ESP. I don't think either of those are actually connected to academia at all. But even if it is citizen science, it's kind of cool to note those correlations between people's lives and their psychic abilities.

[00:27:02] And then, I know you mentioned you talked about remote viewing on here before. But did you watch any of the Stranger Things? Are you still there? Yeah, I'm here. Sorry. Oh, okay. I was speaking, but I apparently had muted myself. Oh, no. Okay. Yeah, I didn't hear.

[00:27:31] Yeah, I've watched Stranger Things. I've watched it all. I said I originally thought it was supposedly written about, they kind of use like the whole Montauk supposed story as an influence. Right. And they pull, and it's so funny because it is so popular, I feel like there's kind of a positive and a negative to that. The positive is, it's really cool.

[00:27:55] It's reignited a huge interest in this whole field of remote viewing, of conspiracy, of psi, of psychokinesis. But the downside to that is, now people go, oh, that's all fake. That was all just in Stranger Things. Not realizing that there is a deep, deep history behind these experiments. The controlled remote viewing. The training of remote viewing.

[00:28:22] Gansfeld experiments where they put like the, oh, they cut the ping pong ball in half. Put you in like a sensory deprivation chamber and have you just like call out what you're hearing, basically. Or call out what you're seeing. But there's a wild, wild amount of data out here on these from the 19, honestly, it says 1960s is when this all first started coming about.

[00:28:51] But I believe that 1940s is when people started going, hey, I think some people are having these weird experiences. And even if you go back in archaeological record, like you had the people in town who had these kinds of gifts and abilities. So it's interesting to see on a global level. Because we hear a lot about the United States just because we're in the United States.

[00:29:20] We hear a lot about the Soviet Union just because of things like Stranger Things. And because there's something like media sexy about the Cold War. People eat that up. And the whole concept of psychics being trained during the Cold War is, it cracks me up how popular it is.

[00:29:45] But there were also a lot of studies that were done in Czechoslovakia. There were studies done in China on functions of the human body and energy healing. So I think we might have briefly touched on that in the psychokinesis episode.

[00:30:01] But they were able to actually see where energy healers were like placing their hands on people's like wrists and places up towards their shoulders or their back started twitching from the energy transference. So I think there's something here. And it would be wonderful if we could get everybody together to compare notes. And I don't know.

[00:30:27] I feel like this is where the CIA or whatever is going to cut our call again. Probably. I think it would be awesome if we could just see all these notes in one place and then kind of flex the abilities a little bit.

[00:30:45] I've always wondered if, like when it comes to research stuff, and this is across the paranormal, cryptid, and UFO, when people do research, I've always noticed that certain ones are very reluctant to share their information with someone else because they don't want anyone to steal their credit. Yeah, that's unfortunate. That's so unfortunate. And I get it.

[00:31:08] I don't know if you follow a lot of the paranormal drama, but I kind of love being on the fringes of it. Like not being involved in the drama, but seeing. It's kind of like a reality TV show. It is. It very much is. Bicker. But I mean, we could get so much more done and find so much more information if we just like put our research together.

[00:31:34] And one thing that I've found just kind of being on kind of toting the line between the academic and the entertainment side of the world is that people are really reluctant to have their research methods questioned. Where I think all feedback is a gift. If someone comes in and says, hey, your mic is too close. Like, let's move it back a little bit and see if we get different results.

[00:32:02] And some people just take it as such a personal insult. And in reality, it's just like, it's all an experiment. None of us have any of the answers here. I think that's the one thing that I enjoy is that no one really knows anything. And the people that come out claiming that they have the answers or they're an expert in their field of something that has no definitive proof of existence.

[00:32:27] I'm always leery of because how can you be a expert in something that you have no proof exists? Right. Right. Right. And and I I feel the same way. And I have openly told people on many podcasts that anyone who claims to be an expert is either an expert in the published research that's out there. So they're aware of the literature body or the entertainment body. But like no one actually knows what any of this is.

[00:32:56] And I think we're starting to get a small picture of it. But. I think I think kind of the default armchair pseudo skeptic responses, well, there's no science to support that. When in all actuality, there is a deep, deep mountain of supportive material that can be found.

[00:33:19] Like I challenge anybody who feels that way, that there's no evidence out there for any of this stuff to go pick on your local librarian and ask them to pull up some research on it. First of all, librarians tend to love this stuff. And secondly, what a fun little side quest to do is go find the actual evidence, because I think people will surprise themselves.

[00:33:45] Like there's a whole journal of parapsychology that has all of this information from the 1960s to today. And they're not just doing nothing like they are doing studies that are certified by internal review boards or institutional review boards. Because they're doing real science on real things and getting real results.

[00:34:10] So when I was doing some filming for my documentary, you mentioned library. I actually filmed in two separate libraries on certain scenes, certain interviews. We use the public libraries for it. And. You are correct on they do enjoy this type of stuff, because one of the places that I filmed like I was actually given a speech there. They asked me to be someone to come in and actually talk about a lot of the weird, strange activities around the area.

[00:34:40] So I enjoy when people. Actually find an interest in the weird stuff that I am, because I'm usually the local weird guy here, but. People do have questions and people come out and they listen and then. I end up hearing. More stuff from locals about things that they've had happen.

[00:34:58] So it's strange for me to be, I'm friends with other podcasters and most of the people that I know from podcasting, they don't know a whole lot of the communities that they live around. Oh no. But me being local, a lot of people know who I am. I was like, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Like, Hey, I think being a local legend, especially a local legend who studies cryptids is a great thing.

[00:35:26] Well, someone recently, as of a couple of days ago, mentioned something about that. I don't want to go into too much detail because they're still investigating what had happened, but there was a death and they think that it may have been something. So they asked me, I was like, I don't really want to go anywhere near anything like that right now, because if they're doing investigations, there's no reason for me to be out there putting my evidence on anything that I don't want to be involved in. Right. Right.

[00:35:56] There's kind of a mind your own. Like, I don't want to put, I don't want to put my fingerprints on something because I was out looking for a monster and they come back thinking that I did something. Oh goodness. Well, and so I'm lucky in that my day job allows me to kind of talk to a bunch of people. I work in philanthropy and I am just out meeting with people constantly.

[00:36:20] And a couple of the conventions that are more related to my day job than the paranormal I've been on have put me in the position where there's usually like security or there's like police around. Like I met Mitch McConnell and talked to his security team for a while and like, I am so not afraid to ask the weird questions.

[00:36:44] And so one of my favorite questions to ask like secret service members and people who are working security for just different things is like, what's the weirdest thing you've seen? And sometimes they just open up and have the craziest stories. And like, I say crazy with affection. Like, so I mentioned I'm down here in the Kentuckiana area. Well, I was on the Belle of Louisville steamboat.

[00:37:12] And one of the security officers worked for a local department of corrections. And I was like, Hey, I've heard some rumors is, is anything creepy happening at the department of corrections? And he spilled that they have one cell that they have like decommissioned because everybody who goes into that cell has like a mental health crisis.

[00:37:40] And not everyone has survived that mental health crisis in that cell. So they decommissioned it. And then I kind of thought he was full of it. I was like, okay, this is one story. He's probably just humoring me. So I go to another event where there is a police presence and was like, Hey, so one of your coworkers kind of like told me this, this lore about your corrections facility. Is it true?

[00:38:08] And the guy turns to his, I think it was his boss that was with him. And they both kind of like nodded and then just spilled that they have been seeing like extra people when they're doing checks. Like there's only supposed to be 12 people in one wing and plot twist. There's 13. And it scares the daylights out of them. So I, I, again, love being on the fringes of the drama.

[00:38:37] I don't want to have anything to do with an active police investigation, but oh my gosh, I would love to interview the police officers who've had very, very strange things happen. I've had someone reach out to me and. And part of the documentary that I did, I didn't include any of this stuff, but there's been a lot of murders on the Mississinawal river. And I actually had found someone that supposedly, at least he told me he had actually found a body and.

[00:39:05] I was going to interview him if I ever had the time for, but I ended up just, I was like, I don't think the murder aspect really. It's in with the whole paranormal of what I was doing. So I was like, I just didn't end up doing that, but I could always go back and do more of like a true crime aspect to it.

[00:39:24] But like, I still think the area has a lot of weird stuff that goes on because again, there has been many murders as well as old native American slaughters through there because that's where the army came through. So the river itself, I think it just tainted at this point from all of the years of constant death. And I'm sorry, I'm not super familiar with that river. Is that up in Indiana? It starts in Ohio and it kind of runs up through Muncie, then up through Marion.

[00:39:52] And then it actually stops right here in my town. Oh, interesting. It ties into the wall bash and then the wall bash obviously goes and down into the, I think it actually goes down to the Ohio. Yeah. Yeah. And the Ohio river Valley is, is rich with all sorts of true crime meets paranormal meets like, are you familiar with the penny Royal guys? Like the penny Royal podcast?

[00:40:23] Hmm. They sound familiar. I think they consulted with a couple of the folks on, on the show hell year at one point. And they, the penny Royal is an interesting area of Kentucky where, I mean, it's a karst region. There's all these deep caves, but there's also an entire courts bed that cities are built on.

[00:40:50] And the level of like schizophrenia or reported hallucinations, auditory and visual hallucinations, and like quote unquote satanic activity, just like skyrockets on this specific geographic thing. And I know this is so far from remote viewing, but I'm really geeking. So tell me if we need to get back on track. You are fine there. We go off the rails here all the time. Okay.

[00:41:20] I live for being off the rails. So, but it's interesting. And so like the penny Royal and Somerset, Kentucky is a really cool area that has that geographic kind of like hotspot area. There's an international museum of the paranormal down there in Somerset on this courts bed. And I had some weird haunting activity go on while we were in the museum.

[00:41:45] And then it's also the only place in the Western hemisphere where you can, I think it's one of two locations in the Western hemisphere where you can see a moon bow, which is a rainbow that is, you can only see it when there's a full moon off of this crazy big waterfall. It's really cool. Highly recommend if you haven't been down there.

[00:42:04] Um, but then also like speaking of just geographic weird places, have you talked about vampires or psychic vampires on here with anybody yet? Well, the psychic vampire, if you're talking about these beans that feed on your energy, then yes. Okay. That is exactly what I'm talking about. I was on a docu-series that's currently like caught up in that legal post-production phase.

[00:42:34] Um, Cleveland, Ohio. I have no clue why, but there is a hotspot of people who self-identify as psychic vampires in Cleveland, Ohio. Hmm. I haven't heard that. It's bizarre. Bizarre. Um, and highly like, I affectionately kind of keep my distance from them after the docu-series.

[00:43:03] Um, but the level of psychic, what the heck is happening that happens when you put a bunch of psychic vampires into the same room? Um, it was bizarre. I can't explain it. I'm, I tend to be very academic leaning, research minded. I'll, when in doubt, throw it out.

[00:43:24] But there were several moments we had during filming where I was just completely flabbergasted by some of the things that they were saying that there was no way they could have known. Or some of the phenomenon that was happening when we were doing like, we would do this like meditation where we do like an energy exchange. Everyone like held hands in a circle and like spun the energy and stuff would actually happen. Like EMF detectors would spike.

[00:43:50] And I was like, this kind of gets into the world of psychokinesis, but I've, I've not seen psychokinesis studied from a group perspective yet. And I think that would be a really cool area. If you have any listeners who are into kind of like designing these kinds of experiments, like doing a group psychokinesis experiment would be really, really fascinating.

[00:44:19] So around Louisville, which is, I think you said this where you're at now. Yes. Somewhere in Southern Indiana. And I don't exactly know the specifics of which area, but there is a story that came out a few years ago. And I, it may have just been a complete made up story for a podcast. I don't really know, but supposedly down in that area were, and this sounds like very much like twilight to me.

[00:44:47] But there were actual vampires and werewolves that did not get along. So when you mentioned vampires, like I interviewed someone from Florida a few years ago and he was, if I remember correctly, I don't remember if he was dating a girl. He was taking photos of a girl for photography purposes or whatever. She was somehow involved in some sort of a vampire cult, but he didn't really dive too much into the whole weird vampire cult thing.

[00:45:17] So there's a lot. Yeah. So there's a lot of weird stuff, but like I do specifically remember in Southern Indiana, there was supposedly a grouping of werewolves, which again, I don't even know if. How that actually works and vampires. And they did not get along. I was like, that sounds very much like twilight to me or true blood or something.

[00:45:39] I would love to connect with them because like, okay, so I am a recovering high school goth kid. And we, do you know where Greenwood, Indiana is? Yeah. I was actually just there recently. Oh, funny. So, so we, we were Gotham mall rats and like just running around doing dumb stuff. And we had kind of a similar dynamic. Granted, we were all in high school.

[00:46:07] And like, I feel like your imagination is really fun, but like one of my best friends, his mom was Wiccan and they really leaned into the woo woo. And so he was a self-identified werewolf and like his best friend who ended up being my high school boyfriend for a minute was identifying as a vampire. And like, I don't know, all roads lead back to vampires in my life for some reason. I'm really not sure why.

[00:46:35] But after hanging out with them, like eventually we broke up because it's like high school dating, whatever. But like they will legitimate fight and like legitimately like growl at each other. And one of the reasons we broke up is because I couldn't, I could not take it that seriously. But then I go to Paris, France and go to the Musée de Vampire. And while I was talking to the curator of that museum, his name is Jacques Sergent.

[00:47:05] He was doing an academic circuit on vampire folklore through the United States. And so when he was down in New Orleans, I think, I think LSU is in that area. He was at LSU and he had mentioned that he doesn't like to come on these tours anymore. He doesn't like to speak about the folklore anymore in the United States because when he was at LSU, he gave a talk.

[00:47:33] As he was leaving the talk, a group pulled up in basically an old white van and put a bag over his head, drove him to like a discreet location and basically told him, hey, you're a lot closer to the truth about these cults than you should be. And you have to stop talking about this or we will make your life hell.

[00:48:00] And so from there, he like stopped talking in the US. And it's kind of one of those things that's hard to navigate because it's like, you don't necessarily have to believe they're vampires, but they believe that they're vampires and they're kidnapping people. So that's pretty dangerous. So it's kind of like, where is the line between we're playing vampire and also we're just being criminal? Right there.

[00:48:30] I've heard stories of where people in these vampire clubs or cults or whatever you want to call them. Obviously, they're not dead. They're normal people, but they do do little weird rituals where they will drink blood like they will drink someone's blood. I was like, that just sounds very disgusting to me. I'm not a blood person. Right.

[00:48:54] Well, and in the group that I filmed with a couple of them, they call themselves sanguine vampires, which sounds straight out of vampire the masquerade. I mean, they were actually like going through getting full blood panel testing done. And then after they had their full blood panel testing done, they would drink each other's blood.

[00:49:17] And I know that that I feel like there's a couple of different branches of vampire lore, thought, whatever out there. But it just seems awful trusting to drink other people's blood and just hope it's clean. Right.

[00:49:39] That is not anything that, you know, I could never be a vampire or a killer or anything like that because I typically with my own blood, I pass out. So I see someone else's blood. My wife actually cut her leg up real bad a couple of weeks ago, and I didn't actually pass out from that. She didn't do too well, but I don't. And she is a phlebotomist. So she, I let her practice on me and I actually passed out when she was practicing.

[00:50:09] So for me and blood, it's just a no go. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I am not a fan. I, so I will say when I was a morbid little high school goth kid, I was definitely, I was a little bit of an edgelord. And I was like, okay, this is cool. And I have, like, we would do like blood packs where we'd like cut our finger and touch it to each other. Like nothing like drinking blood or anything, but still kind of like pushing those limits.

[00:50:39] And as I got older, like as that frontal lobe started to come in, I was like, this is absolutely filthy. I can't believe I did that as a kid. And then I have had about 19 surgical procedures in the last six years. And you would think it would get easier to see blood the more you are exposed to your own blood. But man, it just gets rougher.

[00:51:05] Yeah, I, I've honestly never had a surgery, so I've never had to deal with that. But I typically get cut up and doing work or something. I'm, I'm always bleeding one way or the other. Oh, gosh. That's no fun. Well, and I mean, honestly, kind of like back into the psychical stuff. I mean, I, I do feel like there is some kind of, whether it is like a psychosomatic thing or not.

[00:51:35] I think when people do their little blood rituals, they take it more seriously. And if you subscribe to like the psychokinesis or energy transference worlds, the stronger you believe in it, the stronger the results will be. So it just gets so tangly when you start talking about the world of, okay, you've got vampires who are doing blood rituals, but they actually believe it.

[00:52:03] And you've got these people who are showing like statistically significant psychical testing. And I, I feel like part of the gap is like ethics. Like you cannot run an experiment and say, hey guys, do a blood ritual. Here's some real blood.

[00:52:28] But I would be curious if like citizen science who isn't bound to the IRB, who isn't bound to like ethical standards. Like I would be very curious to see how people self-report the effects of doing things like magic ritual with blood and the results that they perceive that they got out of it. I think that would be a fascinating study. And my field of study is sociology.

[00:52:55] So it's a lot of studying the people who are doing the things. So now you've got my wheels turning. Like I kind of want to put together a little kind of like a survey of people who've done these kinds of rituals before. I'd love to talk to them. I've always wanted to talk to someone that's been in a group like that. And so far I've not had any luck. Obviously I had that one guy that said he would knew someone that was, but I've never spoken to the person that's been there.

[00:53:25] And I've talked to people that have been in cults and escaped being in a cult. But I've never spoken to anyone that's been in something like where they have done those type of ritualistic activities. Oh my gosh. Would you care if I made an introduction or like reached out to a person who I think would be great for you to talk to? I am open to anyone that ever wants to come on the show. Okay. Awesome. Well, I am definitely going to forward your information along because I've...

[00:53:53] Like when we did this docu-series, it was basically here's a bunch of people who identify as psychic vampires. Some of them identify as sanguine vampires. And oh, by the way, you're staying in a haunted Airbnb. And oh, by the way, the person who wrote like one of the top selling books on psychic vampirism is involved in this project in some capacity.

[00:54:20] So like I don't know if it quite classifies as a cult or if it's just a club or if it's just a social group. But like, man, some of the things that happened on site when we were filming, I just... I have no logical explanation for. Do you have any idea when that's going to be released? I don't. It's...

[00:54:48] So plot twist, when you get a bunch of people who identify as psychic vampire into the same room, it gets a little dramatic. So it's caught up in legal right now. So I'm hoping it comes out soon. There are some... I think they even took down the YouTube channel for it. But we filmed for months for these two series that we were doing.

[00:55:15] But I think one of them is actually going to be at Scarefest. And I think they could potentially talk kind of superficially. They could probably dive a little deeper into it than I can. When is Scarefest? It is the week before Halloween. Okay. But highly, highly recommend. I mean, it is 75,000 people in Lexington, Kentucky across four days.

[00:55:45] You typically get a bunch of different celebrities. Like what I mentioned earlier, the Venn diagram between people who like wrestling and people who like paranormal stuff is a circle. Like Chris Jericho, for example, had a booth at Scarefest. They do like scream reunions on the horror side. They... I think they've got a couple other pro wrestlers that are actually coming this year too. But then they also do forums and panels.

[00:56:15] And like the ghost hunters will be there. Like Steve Tango, Jason, all of them have all been there. I think they usually come every year because it's one of the funner ones. But then they'll also do like events outside of it. Like they'll do a ghost hunt with like, I think it was Rob Thomas or Thompson that did one last year. And they just... They pull off a better convention than I have ever.

[00:56:44] It's probably the best convention in the country as far as organization and content. I will have to look into it and maybe try and get a booth or something set up there for next year. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I'm also a member of the Order of the Odd Fellows, which is an old... It's not... It's a not so secret society. It's kind of like the Masons, but I think we're cooler and we're co-ed.

[00:57:11] But like they had a whole bunch of Odd Fellows memorabilia, which can be really morbid. Um, so in terms of like collectibles, taxidermy, like it's not like an oddities market, but it is like stuff you will not see in the mainstream, like Facebook marketplace or thrift stores or anything. I'm not sure. I've heard of the Odd Fellows, but I'm not sure exactly what it entails. Like how do you become a member of that?

[00:57:41] Um, so you have to go through kind of a rigorous, um, you kind of have to go through a rigorous process because it's not really an open society. You have to be recruited by somebody who's in it. And if you are, if you voice your interest in it, you will likely have a couple of interviews with current members of whatever lodge is closest to you.

[00:58:05] Um, and then you go through an initiation ritual and then you have your annual or your weekly lodge meetings. Um, so I'm a member of Lorraine Lodge number four here in Louisville and our lodge is on the younger side of fraternal societies.

[00:58:26] Like I think a lot of people when they envision Odd Fellows or Masons, they kind of think of people who are 60 and older, people who are generally retired and that's their like hangout spot. Ours is more people from, I think our youngest member just turned 21. Um, so ours is everyone from like 21 to 60 and we basically party, raise money and give it away.

[00:58:51] But our whole thing is visit the sick, relieve the distressed, educate the orphan and bury the dead. So we take care of the parts of society that people really don't want to look at. Um, and, um, like for example, our last, um, service day. So we do a lot of service days where we go out and help in the community. We went to Hildegard house, which is a homeless hospice. And people just don't think about homeless people needing death care before they pass.

[00:59:20] Um, so being able to help with organizations like that is, it really is what motivated me to join the Odd Fellows was that charity side of the house. Um, but the camaraderie is insane too. Like our, our lodge is a bunch of Dungeons and Dragons and Warhammer nerds and, um, they're wonderful, wonderful people. Yeah. I'm not involved in any sort of groups, so I don't really know a lot about it.

[00:59:48] I know I had families that family members that were in like the Masonic Lodge or something like that, but I've never been a very social person, which is hilarious that I do a podcast. But I typically am like anti-social. So that's so funny. Cause like just, just my experiences with you, I feel like you've been social and going to goat man festival and all the conventions. Like, so are you an introvert then? I wouldn't assume so.

[01:00:17] I really don't know. Like I've been a death metal vocalist. So I'm up on stage and like, I have to interact with people. I sell stuff. So everything I do, and I even want my normal job, I run construction jobs. So I meet with clients all the time. I meet with all sorts of people. I have to make sure like, so it's not like I'm weird to the sense of where I won't talk to someone, but I prefer when it's all said and done. I actually prefer just to be, I'm a quiet person. Yeah. I just kind of like to chill. I don't say a whole lot.

[01:00:46] So people are like, he doesn't talk very much. Well, because I only talk when I have to. Well, and I'm actually kind of curious because it looks like there's more, um, it looks like just from the studies that I've read, there is more evidence leaning towards stronger psychical inclinations and introverts than there are extroverts.

[01:01:10] So I don't know if you've ever dabbled in psychokinesis or remote viewing, but maybe, maybe it'd be worth, worth giving it a shot. There are instances where I have deja vu all the time and sometimes I will think of something and then it will actually like manifest itself within like a few minutes. And that creeps me out. So I don't know if it's like some sort of a, I don't know.

[01:01:35] Like I said, I try not to get too in the weeds with a lot of this stuff, but I've had so many little random things that have happened. Like I might just think of something and all of a sudden, like someone's going to say something and all of a sudden it happens. They say exactly what I was just thinking. Like stuff like that's weird. I mean, weird, but also awesome. Because if you can lean into that and start intentionally manifesting things, like that's kind of a flex.

[01:02:03] I just have no idea of how it happens. Like I will just be sitting there and all of a sudden I'll just randomly think of something. And like a couple minutes later, someone might say what I was just thinking. Well, there's a really cool study that was put out a couple of years ago that was about spontaneous knowledge. And they interviewed, it was kind of like a snowball sampling where they would interview somebody and they'd be like, Hey, I've also got this friend who has this talent or this ability.

[01:02:33] And it was exactly what you're talking about. Like where somehow all of a sudden, you know, something before it's happened, you might doubt yourself before it actually manifests, but then it manifests and you go, Oh, that was weird. But like in the moment, all you can really do is go, Oh, that was weird. Because I think we're taught as a society to kind of ostracize the psychicalness of stuff like that. But I don't know. I think you should lean into it.

[01:03:02] That's, I mean, that is exactly what the Monroe Institute is, is looking to refine in people. So I've mentioned this a couple of times on the episodes that I've had over the last couple of years, but since we last spoke, I had a dream and I don't understand the context of this dream, but there was a storm coming and we were in like one of those

[01:03:31] oil changing stations. Like when you take your car, you take your car, your oil change. And I was trying to get my kids to like go underneath where the bay is because there's like a tornado coming in. As I'm yelling at them to go under, I get picked up off the ground and I get thrown across into the wall and my nose is bleeding. That's just, that was the dream. Like I don't know much anymore about it, but later that afternoon I was in my office at work and the same nostril was bleeding.

[01:03:58] Like I just started having a random nosebleed that I had a dream and that I had a nosebleed in. So that's odd to me.

[01:04:08] That I, that is very odd, but in a, in a really weird sense of things, there are, there are some studies that show like, Hey, when these things are happening unconsciously or subconsciously and then happen in real life, it's kind of like a point of contact between your subconscious, your unconscious and your, your conscious. And so I wonder if there's a deeper thing going on in there.

[01:04:37] I have no idea. And then the weirdest one. And again, I, I don't like talking about it cause it involves my kid, but he was, this was in the, was right after we had spoken. It was like a couple of months after. So this was in 2023. I had this dream that he was being taken by these little beans. And I'm not going to call them aliens because they didn't look like aliens. They were little pinky fleshy. I don't know what they were.

[01:05:05] And I am kicking and I am screaming and I'm hitting. And one of them comes up and like does the ET thing to me and like, this finger wasn't glowing, but it touches my nostril. And I woke up and he was not beside me anymore. Somehow, like he'd been sleeping in our bed. He'd crawled under the covers and was at the foot of the bed. So I grabbed him, brought him up beside of us. And at the time he was only like two years old. And the next morning I woke up and I went to the bathroom. That same nostril had crusty blood at the edge of it.

[01:05:34] So I freaked out and went and told my wife, and this was right around Christmas time because we had Christmas with her family that day. And she was laughing about it, told her family that I like was dreaming and I probed my nostril, must have stuck my finger in my nose and gave myself a nosebleed. I was like, or I wasn't dreaming. Like, I, it's just, I don't know. Like they all had a good laugh about it. And to me, I was like, assholes.

[01:05:59] Well, and, and I mean, it's, it, to, to be fair, like back to stranger things, when they show her nosebleeding, like that is a common occurrence when people stress their psychic muscles. Like, I'm, I'm going to butcher her name, but there is a, a lady from Russia, Nina, I'm going to call it, I'm going to, I know I'm butchering this.

[01:06:25] Nina Kulajina from Russia was one of the most prominent psychokinesis practitioners in the world for a really long time. And sometimes when she would strain herself and stuff would be moving, like she would also have those nosebleeds. And I think that's a pretty common occurrence among people who are having out of body experiences is sometimes they'll come back and their nose will be bleeding.

[01:06:49] So I don't know if that's, like, I would love to just get the medical world and the psychological and psychiatric world and the people who are studying paranormal phenomenon all together. Because it seems like that there's a common thread of that nosebleed when something is extra psychical.

[01:07:09] And when you're talking about the little beings, I don't know if you're familiar with kind of the bodies of research on psychedelic experiences where people are in altered states of consciousness. But, like, people who are doing DMT are reporting these little critters.

[01:07:26] And I, I, I, I struggle to discredit psychedelic experiences when so many people are seeing the same thing under an altered state of consciousness. Like, I, I don't know what it is. I can't, I have no explanation for it. But for so many people to have similar reports of that just blows my mind. Like, I think there's something there.

[01:07:54] I often wondered if some of the reports of, like, in this could be 100% me going completely off the rails. But, and I've mentioned this so many times already now, but it's just where my brain goes with it. If you look through history back in Europe and everything, they had a whole story about fairies. Oh, yeah. People would be abducted by these fairies. And they'd have missing time.

[01:08:23] Their clothes would be on differently. Like, they didn't know what happened. So they'd be getting kidnapped and go into the fairy realm. Nowadays, we say that's alien abductions. Right. Right. But what if the things that's been happening throughout history have all been the same phenomena? We just don't understand it. So as we evolve, it's been evolving along with us. So what we considered fairies, now we consider aliens.

[01:08:47] Or what we consider demons, we consider it's whatever's on that other side of the realm that we can't see all the time. Right. And I think someone tried to tie that into, like, the Goblin Universe theory, which was that phenomenon will appear to us in the way that we will most receive it. And so with the technological advances, the fairies do become aliens.

[01:09:09] And with, like, in cave regions, you've got cryptids like the Gravediggers who might, to people from non-cave regions, just look like a total weird cryptid. So I kind of buy into that, that people will receive what they are most inclined to believe. People today, obviously, they keep reporting these pale crawlers, which... Oh, those scare me so bad. I'll cry.

[01:09:40] The creepypasta version they call rakes, but it's basically the pale crawler. But you also have to remember back, I think it was in the 50s or 60s, you had the Dover Demon, which was basically the same thing. Right. But you also had other bulbous, white, pale humanoid things that people say they're like the Kentucky Goblins. Yes. And then you have the Hopkinsville Goblins, which were like the little green men that they were all shooting at back in the 1950s. Right.

[01:10:08] There's all sorts of small little humanoid figures throughout all these stories. And then if you go into Europe, you had this story of the leprechaun. You had the story of the gnomes and all these other little things. The elves in, like, the Norwegian and stuff, like, their elves were not depicted as the little Christmassy elves. Like, they were like creepy. Like, some of the depictions of things, they were like really creepy. And then you have things called, like, Pukwudgies, which could be an elemental thing.

[01:10:37] But around here, we have little people. So are we all seeing the same things, but they're only showing us what our minds interpret them to be? Gosh, I hope so. I hope so. Part of me wants to believe that they're all different critters and that they all exist. Like, that's the part of me that wants to believe. But then the logical side of me is, like, I would, as much as I would love to see these things, I would probably cry immediately out of fear.

[01:11:08] Because, like, I kind of along these lines of phenomenon that people are regularly recording, like, I have had, I think just in the last, like, three or four months, I have been told seven or eight different stories about I was driving along a remote road and I saw this ghostly figure standing by the road. And when I turned back, they weren't there.

[01:11:37] And it tends to be on rural roads and rural areas. And it's just, like, why are so many people currently having these experiences? And why are they so creepy? See, my friend, he actually went to school around Cincinnati. And he did my artwork. Obviously, the artwork you can see on here, like, he did my podcast artwork. And he does all these conventions.

[01:12:08] And he was on an episode and he talked about when he was down there, he was on his bicycle, I believe, and he was pedaling. And he saw, like, this homeless-looking guy. And then as he kept going, he seen him again. Like, somehow he'd gotten in front of him. Oh. But there was something creepy and off about the whole thing. And, like, the guy somehow mysteriously, like, managed to manifest himself in two different spots at the same time. Ooh.

[01:12:37] I don't love that. Yeah. So, like, he goes obviously more in-depth with it. But, like, that's the short version of it is he'd seen this same person, this creepy-looking, I guess, homeless-looking guy twice. But somehow the guy had gotten way in front of him. Which doesn't make any sort of sense of how that was possible because he was on one corner and all of a sudden he was on a further corner as the same guy. Well, and I guess, oh, so that's creepy.

[01:13:07] I do not love that. But one of the things that kind of comes out of some of these perceptual studies, consciousness studies, is the concept. I mean, have you heard of crisis apparitions? Is that where you kind of manifest these things under distress? Somewhat.

[01:13:31] So, crisis apparitions are like if I was getting ready to die or if I was in that transition phase between life and death, my sister might get a phone call from me after my time of death has been called. Or a family member might see me walking by their window, go outside, and I'm not there.

[01:13:58] And then they might after receive the call that I had passed away 20 minutes ago. And it's a global phenomenon. I know IU has actually, or Indiana University has actually gone to like Ghana and studied crisis apparitions. Because there's actually a really concentrated region of Ghana where crisis apparitions are just happening left and right, it seems.

[01:14:23] But that kind of makes you wonder about, okay, so if we do subscribe to the theories of remote viewing, and we do subscribe to the concepts of out-of-body experiences, what are the chances that somebody who is, for lack of a better term, a better receiver, like, what if they can see you remote viewing?

[01:14:48] Like, what if we are projecting ourselves as ghosts into these areas? And that's not like a line of thought that I hear people go down to too often. But I really, I'm kind of a fan of the our consciousness is stronger than we know theory.

[01:15:07] And I would not be surprised if there are ways that people can essentially project themselves into places that they are not, in the form of like, what we would describe as a ghostly apparition. I interviewed someone a couple of weeks ago, obviously it's not been released yet, but,

[01:15:31] and he said he saw, for the best interpretation of the way to explain this, he basically saw God. But God was everything. So he saw all these consciousnesses, which were basically like these lights, which were basically all of the people as a collective consciousness. And God was at the center of this.

[01:15:57] And the way he was describing it is, it's not so much like we're all on tendrils or anything like that, but we're all somehow connected to the higher being, which he said was what we would refer to as God. But we're all a part of that and we're all connected consciously. So I guess it's like that one consciousness type of reality that he's speaking of.

[01:16:20] Yeah, I really love hearing experiences like that because I definitely think there's a lot to that. I think as the government kind of relaxes its altered states of consciousness bands. So like as we see more people go get ketamine treatment or psilocybin treatment or I know psychedelics have really,

[01:16:50] they've kind of come back to the main stage. I think they were popular for a little bit and then the war on drugs happened. But I think there, that echoes experiences that a lot of people who on psilocybin and ketamine, like mega doses have, have experienced like being part of one main thing, one consciousness that everybody is kind of pulling from. But it's, it's fascinating. I think it's absolutely fascinating.

[01:17:20] I'm looking for an interview that I did with a couple of guys and it's been a while. So I'm trying to scroll back through. They do a consciousness university and I forget where they called it. Obviously, I think it's all online. So I don't know the whole thing. So I'm trying to see what episode it was. So it's not the Monroe Institute? No. Oh, interesting.

[01:17:48] They call it the Astral Traveler Institute. And basically they talk about how they do it and they help people learn how to do this, where they could basically you leave your body and you can astral, like the planes or the astral planes or whatever. So your little consciousness leaves your body. And they teach that to people? That's what they were talking about.

[01:18:16] I have not really enrolled into their online courses or anything like that, but that is what they talk about on the interview of how they try and help people learn how to do this. Oh, how cool. Yeah. I, I really love this field because I mean, it's truly one big experiment as people are kind of testing their own theories.

[01:18:41] And as people are trying new things, like I would love to learn how to do an out of body experience. The only one I ever had was when I was like 10 and I had an aggressive fever and like, it was so minuscule. Like I thought I got up and turned off the TV and then I like was back in my body on the couch and the TV was so still on. And I was so angry, but like, that's the closest thing to it.

[01:19:08] There have been times where I thought I was dreaming and I still think I was dreaming, but I remember, I feel like I left my parents' house since obviously when I was younger. I went outside, I went around the backyard, came back inside, went back to bed. I don't know why I went around the yard, but I did. And I was like, I always wondered if I just dreamed that or if I really did it. And, but there were some other times where I've just had random dreams that creep me out.

[01:19:39] And then I'm like, well, hopefully that that's not anything that ever happens and it's never happened. But like specifically in the last few years, I have dreams and I am always back either at my parents' place or my grandparents' house, which is next door. But it's always somehow I'm always in that general area. And I don't know why. That's really interesting. I try not. I mean, I would pull that thread a little bit more. See, see what you can do there.

[01:20:06] I try not to do a whole lot of thinking too much into it because I don't want to try and like manifest my own thoughts like subconsciously and think of things like that. So I just try to see what happens naturally because I feel like if I start digging into things and maybe I'm going to start manipulating myself, not meaning to, but I'm forcing myself to think about it. You know what I mean? So, yeah.

[01:20:31] I mean, it sounds like it sounds like it's the psychic ism is trying to pull you in whether you want to or not. It sounds like it kind of goes like with hypnosis or whatever. I've always been leery of that because I'm afraid of what would happen. And I one of those interviews that I have with the people that were talking about teaching astral travel is like, what happens if your consciousness leaves your body, but you can't get back to your body? Oh, that's scary. I don't like that.

[01:20:59] And it's like, what happens if you run into one of these entities that are in these other planes that you say you can interact with? It's like, what happens if you get lost? They claim as soon as you wake up, you're always back in your body. But I was like, what happens if you get trapped? Or what happens? Can you die when you're not in your body? Like, I don't. There's so many questions that I have. I'm maybe too much of a paranoid type of a person, but I was like, I don't want to even want to try it because I would be the one that would get lost and never return.

[01:21:25] Or like, what if something else from that realm comes back to your body before you get in it? What happens if you bring something back that you weren't supposed to? Is that how these people claim they have these possessions because they brought some sort of an entity back with them? I mean, I'm here for it. Once I get my PhD, I would love to flex the academic side of this and interview people who've had these experiences and just compile the similarities.

[01:21:53] Because it sounds like there's a lot of room for discovery in these areas. And it's fascinating. Like, there's no shortage of material. There's no shortage of theory. Like, it is something people experience globally, too. And I, not to try and tie all phenomena together, but obviously when you talk about people that have these abductions and they say they're aliens,

[01:22:21] I've had someone reach out to me that wanted to be on the show, but they backed out because they were afraid, which I understand. But what they were going to say that they were abducted by, they claim it was not actual what they think we think are like creatures from space. They were actually just people. Oh, that's the, I don't know if that's scarier. I think that might be scarier. So the people that are doing the abductions, they're not actual aliens that we're seeing.

[01:22:50] It's actually the humans doing it and humans doing experiments on people, but they make us believe that they're aliens because they like that about it. But it's actually humans doing all the bad stuff to us. In every interview I've ever given, I say the scariest part of any paranormal investigation is the human factor. Because there is always the possibility that people are being malicious.

[01:23:19] And it's way easier to prove people are being malicious than it is to prove aliens or to prove some of this other phenomenon. Yeah. That is the one thing I've always said too, is like when I go out and look for these things, I'm not necessarily afraid of the Bigfoot that could be in the woods. I'm afraid of the crazy person with a gun. Right. Right. Especially in Indiana.

[01:23:46] That is the biggest concern of mine is the people. Even just to bring it back around to the psychic vibes or anything like that. But like my intuition tells me that not to go in certain areas because I get like a bad feeling about certain things. And I went into haunted places and I don't get any sort of like weird feelings, but sometimes I've been in areas and I get creeped out.

[01:24:11] And I think a lot of it's because it's dark and I'm not afraid of the dark, but there are certain spots. Like, I don't know what it is. Like it just, there's a weird feeling. And it's usually something because it's dark in there. And I don't know if it's just because the dark makes me automatically think of something's hiding in the woods and you can't see it or the fact that there is something actually there that I can't see.

[01:24:35] Well, and to validate that fear a little bit, there was a group of geologists and spelunkers that went down in the Mammoth Cave into Kentucky. And they were on, I think it was like a seven day expedition to map out parts of the cave no one had been to. And so they are deep, deep in the cave where there is no life. They're like, there are not even bats. They're so deep. And they got to a point where they were hearing other humanoid noises that were not in their party.

[01:25:05] And they booked it out of that cave. And so that's a group of researchers. That's a group of spelunkers. That's a group of people that do this for their profession. And that usually aren't startled by things like this, but they were so startled by what they experienced that deep in Mammoth Cave that they left the whole expedition. I will not go into a cave in general because that's the ick factor again.

[01:25:30] So when people actually learn about me, they think I'm just some big wuss because a lot of things I don't like. I don't like insects. I don't like creepy crawly things. I don't want to go into a cave system because I'm claustrophobic. But I'll go out into the woods and go punch a Bigfoot or a dog man or whatever. I don't care about that, but don't put me in situations where a bug's going to crawl on me. I'll freak out. Right.

[01:25:58] The actual, the big survival instinct is kicking in there. Yeah. I'll take on the big eight foot tall monster, but not the little half inch bug. Well, sometimes those little bugs do a lot of damage. Yeah. I try not to actually bother. Certain like praying mantises, like they creep me out because I think they look like aliens. And I don't like insects. It'll turn its head and look at me, but I don't, I don't kill them, but it'll always know I'm there.

[01:26:27] Cause it'll always turn its head and look at me. And it was all creepy with a little alien face, but I leave them alone. I also have wondered as like, if that's where people got the idea of the insectoids, because most of those aliens resemble praying mantises. Oh yeah. I would say it's absolutely influenced by praying mantises. They're, they're freaky looking and they seem, they just seem like they know things. Yeah. That's what I said. When a bug watches you and turns its head. Nope. Right.

[01:26:56] That's a big note for me. There was one on my mailbox the other day and it turned its head and was looking at me. I was like, I'm just getting the mail buddy. And I got my mail out and left it alone. Oh goodness. Well, he was probably observing the whole time. Yeah. I went back out later and he was gone. So. Well, I know we're, I know we're coming up on an hour and a half. I guess, are there any, are there any topics we haven't talked about that you'd like to? Not offhand.

[01:27:25] Do you happen to know, and obviously you're, you're involved with certain things. Is there anything coming up that you will be involved in? Cause you mentioned Scarefest. Is there anything that you do like for these conventions or anything that you will actually be around? Yeah. So I'm giving an 18 plus talk at Scarefest this year. So I am going to actually hold on pause. How, how late, when will this be coming out?

[01:27:53] I can release this whenever I need to. Okay. So they are going to make the guest announcement here in the next couple of weeks. As me, for me as a guest speaker, it's not out yet. So I think it'll be out by the time this, this airs, but I've spoken at Scarefest for the last five years. So it shouldn't, shouldn't be a thing.

[01:28:12] But I am actually so deeply into my academic world right now that I am doing research studies through that, that I cannot talk about. So I've kind of weaned off a little bit more of my public appearances. Last year, we did a series of old Victorian seances where we partnered with a mentalist and basically started this off with everything you're about to see is fake.

[01:28:42] But every once in a while, something that is unplanned and spooky does happen that is not part of the show. And then we followed it with a paranormal investigation. So we might do a couple of those this year. I've also worked on the Southern Indiana Paranormal Passport with So-In Tourism.

[01:29:03] So if you are in the Jeffersonville area and want to hear the spooky stories, but don't necessarily want to go on a full guided tour, you can go down there, pull up the passport, and it will tell you the haunted history and the phenomenon that people are modern day experiencing in those areas through Southern Indiana tourism.

[01:29:26] I haven't spent a whole lot of time in Southern Indiana other than either driving through it or obviously I've been in Louisville last year for Goblin Con. Yeah. Yeah. Southern Indiana, first of all, Jeffersonville is cursed. I fully believe Jeffersonville is cursed. There's a lot of weird stuff that happens in Jeffersonville. So, um, and I just moved out of new Albany two months ago to move to Louisville.

[01:29:54] So, I mean, I really love the area. I'm an Indianapolis native, but I have really, really fallen for the Kentuckiana area. You'd mentioned Greenwood a little bit ago, and I was actually just down there because they had a paranormal thing going on there that I was a speaker at a couple of weeks ago. And, uh, we were just drove through there again this past weekend. And then, I don't know, something about that town.

[01:30:22] I feel like it's, uh, it has a lot of old vibe to it. It does. And there are a lot of, um, so the, this is just part of my own, my own lore is, um, so like when I was 13, my boyfriend at the time, his grandma was a Reiki master. And there's a place called, um, the inner path, which is a metaphysical store that's in that Greenwood area.

[01:30:50] There is a lot of woo-woo in Greenwood. Like I know more people who identify as, uh, witchcraft practitioners, people who identify as Wiccans, people who identify as psychic vampires. I mentioned earlier that there's a whole group who identifies as werewolves up there. I don't know what's going on in Greenwood, but they are having a great time. Um, I would like to talk to a werewolf. So if anyone from the area is a werewolf, I would like to talk to you. Cause I'd like to know if that's what I saw one night.

[01:31:20] Yeah. Let me, let me reach out to a couple of my contacts from back in the day and see, see if they would be willing to talk or if they know anyone who would be willing to talk. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I know there was a story from a different podcast and the guy had talked about werewolf wars and I was actually on the same podcast a couple of years ago. And he's actually going to be at cryptic con this year. It's Tony Merkel from the confessionals.

[01:31:46] And he had an interview with someone that I think was all BS, but basically the guy said there was werewolf stuff going on in Southern Indiana. And then someone else that he interviewed also mentioned my specific town of Peru, that there was werewolf stuff. And he asked me if I knew anything about all that. And that's kind of how the whole thing went about. And that's kind of what gave me the idea for my documentary, because I started to dig into it after he asked me about it.

[01:32:13] And I started to find out there was a lot of people around here that have seen the same type of thing. Huh? And that's why the documentary is called the Mississinaw Triangle, because it's all based around the Mississinaw River. And there's been so many different sightings of strange bipedal canines and humanoid looking figures and all sorts of paranormal stuff and even UFO stuff.

[01:32:42] That's all tied to this small little area. Yeah, that's I I'm excited for I'm excited to watch your documentary. It sounds like it's going to be really, really fascinating. And gosh, I hope you get some werewolf traction. I hope someone reaches out again when it comes to some of this stuff, because I get people that reach out all the time for all sorts of things. But very rarely do I ever get anyone that wants to talk about Dogman stuff.

[01:33:09] And those are my favorite type of interviews because I relate to it. Just because that's literally what I saw almost 20 years ago. Well, I certainly hope that. Well, I don't know if I hope. Do you want to see another Dogman? I 100% do because. I am going after it. And I know that might be the last thing anyone would tell me to do. Right, right.

[01:33:38] I need at least two seconds of confirmation. It might kill me after that, but I at least need to know for two seconds what it is. Hey, if that's how you go, that's a hell of a story. Yeah, I always said before I'm going to be the idiot that's trying to Facebook Live getting attacked by a Bigfoot or a Dogman or some sort of weird crypt. That's how I plan on going out.

[01:33:59] Well, I don't know if I hope that for you, but I hope you get all the werewolf action that you're into. And it doesn't end in death. I said I've made sure my life insurance coverage is really good for my family in case I do go. So they'll be taken care of. Awesome. Well, well, I definitely appreciate you having me on today.

[01:34:26] And I guess if you or if any of your listeners have any questions about like the decade by decade of remote viewing, psychokinesis, academic research into the paranormal, I am happy and open to talk. But otherwise, I hope you find yourself a Dogman. Where can everyone contact you at? Where would be the best place for them to get a hold of you?

[01:34:54] At this point, Instagram is the best. My Instagram is K-A-J-O-G-L-E-S. It's my name squished together or boo812.org. Awesome. Well, it has been a pleasure, as always, talking with you. Yeah, you too. And I'm sure I will see you around at one of these conventions. Yeah, I'm sure I will, too. You have a good night. All right. You too. Thanks. Bye.

[01:35:29] If you would like to be a guest on Tinfoil Tales, remember to send an email to tinfoiltalespodcast at gmail.com. Or you can also go to tinfoiltales.com and go to the contact section. Just make sure to reach out and get a hold of me and we will get something scheduled for a future episode. You can also find Tinfoil Tales on Facebook and Instagram. Just look for Tinfoil Tales Podcast. You can reach out to me that way, too. Remember to share the show around. Word of mouth is the best way to help the show grow. And just remember, truth comes at cost. Are you willing to pay the price?