Ep. 259: Living Off the Grid: EMF Sensitivity, Survival, and the Life Beyond Signals

And I just turned around and I call ass out of there. I was done. I wasn't dealing with them. The hypocrisy of the cult is one of the things that turned me away the quickest. When I turned my head lights on, it turned and looked at us. And one of the things I remember the most where the eyes were going red. I see an orb of light. It is just circling these steps. Like it is waiting for me. And he begins to tell them that he saw UFO. They're basically like, what are you talking about. That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it, and that's where I saw. The top of the muzzle, nose and the eyes. As soon as I made eye contact with this thing, it's ant like death. Welcome back to stan Foyle tells I'm your host, Brandon, So I'm we're doing on my guest, Julia, Thanks for coming here and talking with me. Yeah, thank you. Would you like to let the audience know a little bit about yourself? Yeah, yeah, So my name's Julia and I'm well, I live out here on the fore edge of anywhere we're internet or cell phone works, and there's reason why I live. Out here in the boonies. I'll get to that in a minute. But yeah, I'm an off grid homesteader. I have goats and gardens and living in a camper right now. But I'm building an undergroundhouse and we do a lot of building with salvage materials. I'm building a greenhouse out of windows I got for free, and. We do a lot with palette and I. Just try to so kind of like a Gavenger former dumpster diving. I used to do a lot of edible plants and small game trapping, and I just was really trying to live off the land. And actually that leads me into the topic of discussion. So I was living. Out in a cave and moa Utah area in twenty eleven, and I was just doing it for fun to try to try to survive off the land. I was really into edible wild plants was my main thing. And what happened was I found out that I'm what's called electrosensitive EMF sensitive. I never really quite felt right in cities. I grew up on the East Coast, but I thought it was just that I was uncomfortable. I thought it was just the overwhelming, you know, madness of city life. But What happened was I moved out to the Boonies and my cell phone didn't work out there, so I turn it off, and then i'd come into town every few time, and of course that the first thing I would do would be turned on the cell phone and make, you know, make calls to meet up with friends and schedule work. I did a little painting and landscaping on the side, and what I found was I started getting a horrible, massive, splitting headache every time i'd turn on the phone. And at first I thought it was psychological and maybe I was just stressed or something. I didn't think that this could. Happen, and it turned into it would be so obvious. I'd get a burning sensation going up my arm that turned into a pressure headache pretty much immediately. And this got worse over the years, to the point where. I was living in the caves, not just for shipps and giggles, but to because I couldn't handle being in town for more than. A couple hours at a time. And I still kind of had a social life actually. Because it was in an area where there were a lot of desert parties and people kind of living and. Living off in the desert, so still have still have really good friends there to this day. Actually, but yeah, I learned that there's that people become electro sensitive, and it's we don't even like the term elector sensitive. I've been saying electrically intolerant. But the official term, and it's also been called electromagnetic radiation syndrome. Officially it's called elector hYP hypersensitive. You may have heard about us on shows like Better Call Saul, but that's all fake. It's not really like that. It's just we're. Average people who have developed an intolerance to artificial radiation. And normally it's cell phones, but it can also happen for we. It tends to get worse over time, and at one point, at some point I developed an allergy even to household they see sixty hrtz power. So I and it was that early overnight I had a bad experience at the I was at the hospital just getting random blood work to try to figure out I had a health condition with my stomach. I was trying to figure out. But I was just there at the hospital and I just went into seizure. I got a headache from the all the radiation that was there. But I just went into a seizure and I was never The next day, I wasn't the same. I couldn't. I tried to go into the house and I couldn't. I would just my vein my whole body would I was just in pain over my whole body, kind of fiber and myalgic like like nerve pains and immediate pressure headache that would turn into a migraine even going into a house or around electric any kind of electric fields. And this really didn't have much correlation with anxiety. I was because because I trained my mind to be really calm when happening, because if you're freaking out, it doesn't help, you know, and like if you're doing your shopping and you and you're having a panic attack, it doesn't help you get out of their creckers. So I learned how to really focus and I can kind of be around that and manage just fine. But when I get home, I feel like total health for the next day, just pressure, headache and all these nasty symptoms. But when I was out in the field, free in lowly ms areas and just outside of town, and we're kind of in canyon country out here, so there's a lot of places to get away from it still, and I feel fine. I'm forty three, I have no major, no real health problems at all, and I. Work all day on the farm. But I go into town, I'm a complete mess. I'm lucky if I can figure out how to do how to swipe the card at the register at the grocery store. But thankfully I don't need to go to town much anymore. And so. Andr it might be wondering, so how you communicate? And for years I really didn't. I was very isolated and just had to A guy was. Literally living under a rock, and I was so I was trying to figure it us all out as far as the science behind it, because I knew there had to be some biological rather than psychological explanation for this. But you know, I failed out of college physics because I wasn't paying attention. I really had no idea about the difference between ionizing and not ionizing radiation, or really anything about it. I just thought it was wulu. There was a point at which I thought maybe I was crazy, and I climbed the cell tower, which is the dumbest thing I've ever done. But my friends told me, you need to learn how to face your fears. So I climbed the cell tower, thinking maybe I could just defeat it with my mind, and anyway, that. Was really stupid. I felt for about a week, and then I really kind of realized, Okay, there's something biological going on, and I just committed myself to understanding what it was because at the time I thought I could cure it. I was an herbalist also, and I was like, there's got to be some kind of herb or supplement I can take to fix this. So eventually I got in a situation where I could listen to podcasts and downloaded them and listen to them offline fairly safely. So I just got really deep into cell biology and genetics and epigenetics and Chinese herbalism and all these different things to try to figure out the answer. And the conclusion I came to. Was you just have to get away from the field and that's a solution. And then in the meantime, there's a few herbs and things you can do to mitigate the effects, but there's no magic cure. There's no shielding or who devices you can put on your cell phone or all that snake oil, and don't even bother with it. And there are certain shielding things. You can do that will help, but not tinfoil. What really works is rock and sand. So that's why I'm building the underground house. But anyway, Yeah, I ended up writing a book about this whole experience called Under a Rock, An Electro Sensitive Survival Guide by Julia Lupin, and then I wrote a couple of sequel, Your cell Phone is Not Safe and Electric Censorship go more into the science and politics of the whole idea is because there is so much misinformation on this topic that on both sides of the issue. So I just thought I needed to educate people just to tell the really good story and then educate people on the actual issues and. The science behind it that they'd understand. And yeah, sorry, that's all a little long winded. But anyway, so where where should hear him? I was gonna say, like, so, you've done the research of this, you've been affected by this, and I guess for the listener out there, how how has this affected you with your life? I know you said you were living out in a cave, Like, there's a whole lot to do une rapid this thing. So from the like, what led you to be living out where you were living, like with the whole cave set up and everything, Like, was that just something that you wanted to do, like living off the grid? Basically? Yeah, Like ever since I was a kid, I read stories about survival and about it living, about living out, and I had this dream of running away. And living in the woods, you know, and I decided to actually go and do it. But that there was some backstory, So I was actually going into wildlife biology. That was what I decided on as a career after you know, dreaming about. Living in the woods that kid. So I had a couple of jobs, but I failed out of college because I actually think it might have been it might have had to do with all the elect with electro magnetism, because it was the same symptoms. I was a straight a kid in high school, but then all of a sudden in the late nineties, when the showers went up, and I had no idea about any of this, but all of a sudden, I couldn't concentrate and I'd get these dizzy spells and disorientation. I couldn't drive across town without getting lost, and this started to affect my school work. So I basically almost dropped out of high school barely passed, but college was a total failure. But I and anyway, and that didn't give up. I just decided to get some internships and gain some life experience. So I was. Very ironically doing radio telemetry on animals. I had this job studying studying California conjours, so I had I had they all have radio tags on them, So I had this big antenna and I was all day long waving the antenna around searching for signals on these birds and taking bearings. And then this is a really funny part, but what part of the job was to the largest cell tower array in southern California, or one of the largest ITT communications facility. The California condors would fly over there and land on the cell towers and start messing with them, and the people at the plant dinner like that. So one of my jobs was to go over and chase condors off of the cell towers and just run at them and spring. We had a special key to get in the gate, and if I couldn't get them to leave before sundown, I'd spend the night. So I would just sleep next to probably. A hundred an array of one hundred cell towers and I never really felt too good after this, but I still had no idea that that could caused biological effects. This is when I was twenty one, so that may have had something to do with, you know, becoming electure sensitive later. But anyway, I went on after this job and had a series of random jobs in different areas of the country and just kind of trying to figure out how to. What to do for a career. And I eventually settled on decided I wanted to be a nature writer. And part of my thesis was of what I wanted to write about was the modern the hunter gatherer mindset but for modern times. So I was teaching myself how to forage dandelions. And trapped worlds and rabbits. And so when I ended up in moa Utah, there were all these caves and it was just a really easy place for me to survive. I would sleep in the desert and hang out and eat wild plants, and then go into town and party with my friends on the weekends and maybe work for a couple of days, a couple of days a month, maybe on average, picking tumble weeds because people always needed yardwork done so I just make my money and buy bags of rice and beans and stash them in the desert and eat a lot of wild edible plants and pick fruit off trees and dumpster dive. You know. I was a pretty easy life actually at the time, until I became elector sensitive, and then it became hell. And I was just living in the caves, trying to survive and barely able to go into town. Kind of off and on like this for years, and I had various campsites I would travel around to, and after a while people did start to question my sanity because I was going through some health problems at the time, and they thought I was just going crazy, I guess because I'd asked them to turn their cell phone off around me. And and I didn't have the scientific backing at the time, because when something like this is happening to you, you can't just go. And look it up on Google if you can't use a computer, right, So yeah, so that was that was the really tough part. Now, with all the research and everything you've done, when it comes to this stuff, is this something that and I don't want to sound like conspiratorial here, but this is kind of the way the show goes. Is this something you think people like are doing intentionally or is it just something that affects certain people like you. Yeah, well there's a story or two questions, but yeah, it's throughout as far as affecting certain people throughout history, throughout the history of electricity, there's always been a small subset, probably from three to ten percent of the population who is much more affected than others. Like they would give people electric shocks back in the day just because probably I don't know, people were bored back then, I guess, so they would get line up to get an electric shock at the fair and they found that a certain some people, like no matter how small the dosage of current, they would have a bad reaction. And then other people, no matter how much electricity they was used, they would barely feel it. So there's definitely a very wide range of how of. How people are affected by it. Now, as far as the second question, are they trying to kill us all or dumbest down or is there a nefarious purpose. For behind it, I'm definitely not ruling it out. There might be. But where I've gone, and that where I've gone with my with my research is I've just that there's so much. There's so much in the mainstream that I can that I can. More easily prove that I don't even need to go deep. There's just obvious instances of people lying, and. It's it's basically all politicized. It's like big Tobacco times a thousand, because they have more sophisticated propaganda and even more money pretty much. So just all the science, the scientific studies that are done are almost all funded by telecom money. And if there's enough money behind something, you can get any results you want to study or manipulate that. They say, what's that quote about lies? Damn lies and statistics? It's like that. And so for my newest book, e Lefter of Censorship, I started and Your Cell Phone Is Not Saved. It's kind of a duo with books of cell Phone goes is more into is more about the cancer, and electoral censorship is about elector sensitive people and how we've been. Portrayed to look crazy. But really it's just all the politics. There's all these bake studies. Where they's at people with frequencies and then they try to say that it's just a posse ebo. So I actually looked at these studies and read them in detail, and there's major problem. And I'm not a scientist, but I know enough, I have enough scientific backing that it was pretty obvious to me that there's deep problems and flaws with the studies methodology. So yeah, like. There may be some deeper reason. But the only reason that I really felt the need to read two to tell people to convince them that we're not crazy, is it's about money. It's just like these companies make so much money and they don't even want to lose any amount of their profits, so they're going to manipulate the science to get any results that they want. And the regular and also so the FCC and Ickner International Committee. On Non Ionizing. Radiation Protection, these agencies are all stacked with industry people. And you can have looked them up and I traced back where they worked before, and it's in the FCC heads like they all works for big tech. Some of them were big tech lawyers or they were the heads they were up there in communication companies and then they get a job with the FCC and then they go back to working. With big tech right after. So obviously there's conflict of interest. And these are the groups that set the safety standards, and there are there are safety standards on non ionizing radiations, but it's kind of like setting the setting the speed lim at five hundred miles per hour. It's ridiculous. There's no help that's taken into consideration at all, and you cannot suit you they're pretty much bulletproof. It's trying to sue a company. People are trying, but yeah, they've got good they've got lawyers. I just wonder, like if they do things like this and they know it affects people a certain way, it does seem nefarious that they would do this, and like the ultimate end game, it doesn't clearly affect me, it doesn't affect a majority of the people. So it's like it's almost like it's a side effect of something else and for some reason, it may affect you, but it may not affect a lot of other people, because you're one of the few people that I've heard that had any sort of issues like with some of the I don't know if it's electromagnetism or stuff, but even people have talked about some of the stuff with like the signals they get from cell phones and everything, of how the signals themselves have an effect on them, which, yeah, you'd mentioned something before. Is a cell phone something that you try to avoid because of the signals from it, of how it affects you. It completely debilitates me. And it's like, at first I thought it was in my head, but it's shortly, I mean, within the first year I realized how obvious it was. It's probably as strong as my sense of smell. Really, it just knocks me out with a pressure headache. But so yeah, I avoid it. And it's like I have an EMF meter, but I don't. Really need it because I can just usually tell, but I have it anyway to double check myself. And where I live it's zero point zero zero zero one microwats per square meter of RS and that's almost nothing. It's and that's pretty much unheard of. I go to town and the meters off the charts like thousands of times that So it's like, so I kind of a lot of people can feel it, but they just don't get the contrast. It's like this only happened to me because I was living in the caves and I had to go from zero radiation to putting myself my micro personal microwave antenna to my head and my cell phone and they can call, and it just became so super obvious. But over the years I've met people who who once I pointed it out, they like, for example, my boyfriend, he's not sensitive so called the left or sensitive at all, but he he did notice like he was. For a while he would go about, so my my WiFi routers in its own camp and I want to get five or optic glandline. That's really the solution is to get a landline and not do anything wirelessly, but unfortunately that's not an option right now in my area. So my WiFi is in it his own camper. It's on a three hundred foot core that connects to my computer and the camper where it is. It's behind a dirt. Firm like far away, so there's no signal that even reaches here. But anyway, my boyfriend, for a while, he would go in that camper while it was on and sit there and. Use his phone and just get out of the heat and. The flies because it's kind of nice in there. But he said he started noticing he'd get a headache, so he. Stopped doing that as much. And other people like my friend, my friend who I've been hiking with recently. She said that she and her daughter both noticed that when they stood next to their smart meter they could hear it, which I've heard of before. Sometimes people hear a high pitched ringing from microwave radiation and. A few other cases like that. I found if people, once they start thinking about it, they realize they. Do feel different in different areas. But as far as people who are severely affected, that's a small percentage of the population, and I think that it's usually misdiagnosed to something else, because if I didn't know what was causing this, and I was still living on the East Coast immersed in these signals, I would just think I was going crazy, or that I had fibermyalgia, or I'm sure. I would have developed some. Degenerative autoimmune disease at this point, because. I was sick when I was living in and I. Was starting to get I thought I had line. But I got all these tests and they were all negative. And then what really made it clear what it actually was is that all the symptoms go away as soon as I come out here, and they reappear as soon as they go back into town. And I've done this back and forth, probably thousands of times, because it's been going on the past fifteen years. So with me, it's super obvious. But I think there's a lot of people who have a lower degree of sense activity than me, but who are still really affected and are mostly just misdiagnosed, or there are a lot of people are on bills too. I'm one of the up I mean, I've looked up the percentages. I think it was something like over half of Americans are on some medication and that dulls your sense it or they're alcoholics or whatever substances they use. And beyond a little coffee, I don't do anything like that. So and by the way, coffee numbs it two, which. Is why I drink it. I have to be around the signals. But for the most part, people are just numbing their senses, and then if they do start to feel anything, they might not talk about it because the reception you get from people is really bad. Generally. Does this affect you if you're in a vehicle too. Oh, totally. The one vehicle I've been good with is I have a nineteen eighty five Toyota tr Cell and it's it's wonderful, and I don't really feel anything from it at all, because it's about as primitive as it can get. That's actually the same naked model of car I learned how to drive on back in the day. But I knew I would never get into a Tesla, but even even a little. My boyfriend and I bought a little Subaru together, and it's pretty it's old. It's two thousand and two, and I still feel a difference in magnetic fields between that and my Toyota t cell. But it's tolerable. But a lot of cars, especially ones that are more electronic, they definitely give me a headache. And I won't get in rental cars. When my parents visit me and they have a rental and unfortunately there's. No way to turn off that. I guess they had. Tracking devices, and there's just no way I can ride with them. I get immediately sick, nauseated, dizzy. I pretty much can't drive. I used to, so I've driven all over the country when I was younger and didn't. Really have any fear of new experiences, and you know, I've been everywhere. I used to hitchhike before. All this happened too, and luckily. I always tell people go see the world when you're young, because you really never know what's going to happen. I'll probably never leave my little valley again if I can help it. But but but I so but I don't even mind. I like being out in nature. But anyway, last experiences out on the road were hell like. I started almost having seizures and it was pretty. Much like I wasn't safe to drive. I had to go. I was driving in through New Hampshire at one point, thinking I could still go on a road trip back in the day when when things were starting to get worse, I was visiting my family and I was on this road trip and got into Keen, New Hampshire, and there was this giant cell tower and lots of cell towers actually, and I got to the point where my vision was whiting out and I was definitely not safe to drive. So I just had to look for woods and drive as far out of town as. I could and just pull over on some random people's property and laid down. And you definitely want to lay down on the ground when this happens, that's pure. But I just laid down on the ground and went to sleep and felt fine in the morning or fell okay anyway, and drove home and this happened. This has happened one or two other. Times on road trips, and yeah, it's a really bad feeling when that happens. When you drop when you're driving, you have to you have to keep driving to get out of the environment, but that's not safe and you can. Crash your car. So mostly, mostly I just stay home these days, and it's all right because I'm I have a farm. I was able to get property in twenty twenty, went from which was which is a whole great story in itself, but yeah, I went from backpacking, living in the caves and going through this health crisis to being a landowner, which is awesome. So I'm just like, so I'm out there pounding fence posts and chasing goats and trying to get my garden. And anyways, I'm pretty busy with that. So I don't really care about the rest of the world right now, beyond reaching out to podcasts and trying to promote my books. But I've been also really focusing on these days. Now with the book. How has it been for you since you've written and how long has it been out. Yeah, So Under a Rock has been out since twenty twenty three, and so I've been Yeah, so I've been promoting it on podcasts and getting some sales. Electrosensitive people do go online, so I joined a couple of Facebook groups and promoted it through there. But I'm just trying to get a trying to get a wider audience. And then the other two have been let's see your cell phone is not safe I wrote in twenty twenty four, and then Electrical Censorships. I just finished finished up with it last winter, and I'm starting another one the titles of Secret right now. But anyway, that one I'm trying to look for. Yeah, trying to maybe go a little bigger with that one, and it's on it's about homesteading, like homesteading with a focus on people with environmental and chemical because the chemical sensitivity sometimes overlaps. So it's a focus on how to be a home an akrid homesteader. When you have electrical or chemical issues, but also if you don't. I'm trying to be mainstream. There's a lot less that we really need to be comfortable and happy, Like I live in this camper and I don't have running water, most of the time. And but I've got more leisure time and probably. A better, much better life than I used to when I was in the cities. And it's like, I just. Want to share all these things that I've learned, how to build the palette and how to garden and raise goats and eat wild plants. Well, yeah, so that's what this was. I was going to ask, like, now, during the winter and stuff, what do you use to keep warm? Like, do you have a way to set up like burn for like wood or something. Yeah, I've got a woodburn it's actually next to right next to where the computer is sitting right now. But yeah, I got a little wood burner in my camper. My neighbor helped me cut a hole through the camper. And just put the pipe out the top. So and yeah, we just cut up My boyfriend splits it would cuts it up with a chain saw. But before I was with him, what I did, I'm I'm a little bit afraid of the chain sauce. So I have a just a little reciprocating saws. All that's battery powered, and I would and I just go out and cut wood with that. And before I had that, I used to handsauce and yeah, stay really warm and comfortable. I actually love the winters here because the bugs go away. Yeah, it gets really really served that the winters are pretty mild. So I think I can agree with the fact that I don't enjoy the bugs here. It's already. Uh, I live in Indiana and the weather's bipolar. So tomorrow's supposed to be eighty three, but then on the next day it's going to be a low of thirty, so it doesn't want to make up its mind if it wants to be cold or hot. Yeah. Actually it's kind of been like that here. We're supposed to get supposed to be twenty three tomorrow night, which is. Going to suck. We're going to have to cover all the plants because I play had my garden two. Months ago, so but yeah, then, but it's still to me better than the heat. It gets to be one hundred and fifteen on an average day, and their flies everywhere, So I really hate that part of the summer. Yeah, I couldn't imagine the extreme heat when it gets over ninety here with our humidity, it's terrible. It's kind of it is kind of worse where I spent a lot of time in Bloomington as a kid, and the heat it is really humid, and at least we don't have that. I've been out west before. It was one hundred and fourteen degrees. I think it was the day that I left and they said, oh, it's not that hot, it's a dry heat. I was like, it's still hot. I don't care if it's a dry heat. It's still hot to me. Yeah. What's worse than the heat to me is the flies though, Like I hate them, So I guess, of all the things that I've survived, like of everything, I've always said, that's the thing that's going to drive me nuts because we're in cattle country and I cleaned the goat pan all the time, but we're in cattle country, so it's impossible to get away from them. Their own fight thousands and it's so disgusting that you almost lose it. But really going to war against them this year. I've got these heavy duty. Fly traps and I'm just gonna buy massive amounts of fly paper. And put it all over the ceiling and hopefully that'll help it keeps out the tourists. Thanks. How many goats do you have right now? I've got four, and I've had which is a reasonable number. I had eight last year and I was trying to find homes for the babies, and I've had up up to twelve or fourteen at a time, which is insane. But these ones I have now are really are really good, and they're so. I have three milk goats and one pat goat, Tito, who is yeah tray. He's four years old and he's like, he's like a big puppy in the car. With me and I put a backpack on him. We haven't actually gone really for a backpacking overnight trip. People can mostly just go on day hikes. But but yeah, I love goats. There. Well, there, the milk saved my life. I was so I was going through some health issues. Kind of enough, sort of an unrelated issue, but it turned out to be my gallbladder. But because I was a lesser sensitive, I wasn't able to I had such bad experiences at the hospital that I wasn't able to go to get it treated until I was having gallbladder attacks. And it almost killed me. So I finally went to the hospital and just took all my herbal tinctures at once. That's been and got through the EMF situation and anyway, just ended up fixing my gobbladder with herbs and diet. But one of the foods that helped so I lost all. Massive amounts of weight at the time, and one of the things that helped me the most was rock oat milk. Yeah, so I. Try to remember that when they're running around my yard. And destroying my trees, just. That I owe that, you know, that they saved my life, so I should probably. Be nice to them. And so I'm making goat I make goat cheese and yogurt, and my boyfriend smokes puts the goat cheese and the smoker with different flavors of smoke, and it's it's just all really super. Good for me. I have two goats. We ended up having baby goats right after we moved in here, and we didn't realize that they were pregnant, be there were two females. But I didn't realize that. We were cutting down a fern tree bush thing out in front of our house and I threw it out back. Well, they ate off of it. Apparently that is toxic to goats. So three of them sadly passed away. A couple of years ago. We're back down to two goats. What kind of goats? I on one is half boar goat, I can tell, like the and then uh, I'm not sure what the other version is. She she's kind of black and white, like checkered black and white. The other one looks just like a boar goat, like all white except for her face you got some brown on it. And she's a lot bigger than the other one. Yeah. I have tb and birds and and they're they're pretty good, like they don't have they don't have horribly loud voices like the Nubians, and they're not as much trouble at the alpines. They're kind of a good, well rounded goat. And they're good milk goats too. So mine don't. We don't. They're more or less for eating grass. That was the we don't milk them or anything like that. Yeah. Well, and yeah, the really known as a milk breed so much so, Yeah. I enjoyed that. Yeah, they're they're fun. Yeah, Yeah, they're definitely underrated, and I can see why people don't want them because there are a lot of troubles. But I finally got. My place, pretty go proofed so and we've got a good routine. I just let them out and they circle my fence and they eat, and then they come home and they get their pellets. So yeah, it's been it's been fun. And then the boy he rides in the car and you go for hikes down at the river. Well we've been going on for almost forty minutes, and I kind of want to go back to talk about your books, like where can everyone find them at? Unfortunately they're only on Amazon at this time, but yeah, look up Julia Lupai and like the Flower and yeah, and they're on Amazon. They're called the titles again are under a Rock, an electro Sensitive Survival Guide is SUBTILE, and then your cell phone is not Safe and electoral Censorship, and I have a couple other ones I have about about other topics, but anyway, those are the three main ones on EMAP. And then I also have a substack which is at Julia Lupine and I post articles on different things like either on EMAP or ghosts or homesteading or whatever I feel like talking about at the time. Well, I'll tell you what. If you're able to send me the links, I will put all those into the show notes for anyone listening, so if they're interested, they can click on the links inside the notes and I'll take it right to your books or to your substack. Yeah, that would be great. Is there anything else before we wrap this up that you would like to discuss with me? And any information for the listeners out there that could be curious. Yeah, let me think. I guess. I guess i'd say, like two people who might be skeptical, I'd say, do your own research. Don't take anybody's opinions at face value, because there is a lot of disinformation in this field. So what I did was I just started doing the research and reading the papers and just really checking, you know, not taking anything at face value. I just had to because I knew what I felt and that was obvious, but. I had to back it up with that, and I feel like I was pretty successful at that. And yeah, and then other than that, I would say, oh, yeah, I would tell people if they suspect that this might be an issue in their life, what they should do. The best way to find out would be go camping. Don't bring your electronics, and that may even include your car, so just don't even turn your car on and make sure that you can't get a signal forever you're camping, so places with a lot of terrain are good. And just see how you feel after a few. Days of that, and then go home and go on your devices and see if there's a difference. And that's one way of telling if that's an issue. And then also there's ways that people can reduce even as a preventatory measure, there's ways that people can reduce your exposure and put it on airport because remember what a cell phone is. It's a two way microwave antenna. It's the same five gigahertz frequency as a microwave, but or a cell phone might be a little different. And Wi Fi is the same as the two point five gigaherts two point four or five gigaherts in the cell phone, it's different depending. On the carrier. You probably know all this, but and but anyway, it's all in the millimeter waves, which is the microwaves part of the spectrum, and there's nobody's ever been able to prove that this space. So basically it's like putting the microwave next to your head, but on a lot lower power, and over time this can be cumulative and cause problems whether or not you feel it. There's I go into it in the book that. There's then a large spike in brain tumors on usually on the right side of the head of the head or whatever side that the person holds that the phone. So you know, it's probably a good idea to minimize exposure if you can. So there's a lot of things you can do, like put it on speaker phone or put it on airplane mode. Also turn the Wi Fi off at night. You can even have it on a time or switch. So at naturally so it automatically goes off at night. And just all these things you can do that aren't really it's not really a cure or a fix, and it's something that a person can do now that won't really disrupt their daily routine, you know, And there's you know, there's no downside to a little prevention. So anyway, Yeah, I suppose that about wraps it up. Unless you have any. More questions, No, I think we kind of covered everything. The only other thing that I could think of is when you're living off the grid, is what is the one thing that you've h what has been the hardest thing for you trying to avoid all of this, like living off the grid and everything. What is the one thing if some people were interested in trying to go that route of a lifestyle, what is one of the things you recommend for them. I guess is just learn how to do dishes and clean yourself without without running water. It's like, if you master that skill, then you can live anywhere. Right, And it's not, it's not really, It's like, it's mostly basically, it's mostly just the fear, the fear of a little dirt and what people will think because your hair is a little messy. Like it's like, I'm not paulp Onion type and not really even that tough. But anyone can do, is what I mean, if you. Really want to. Well, Julia, it's been a pleasure talking with you, but we're gonna wrap this one up. So again, before we do, would you let the audience know the name of your books and they can find them on Amazon. Yep, So yeah, under a Rock your cell Phone is Not Safe and Electro Censorship by Julia Lupine on Amazon, and yeah, definitely check them out. It's I can tell you, it's gonna be very different and probably much more entertaining than any other EMF related book that you'll ever read. I'm definitely curious about them, so I'm probably gonna get on my Uh are they on the kindle vers are they just paperback? I think that the first two are kindle and paperback and then electoral censorship. I just so eventually I might get it on a kindle, but right now it's just paperback. Okay, sounds good. Well, again, I appreciate you coming on here tonight and sharing that with me and the audience and hopefully anyone out there listening they go and check out your books, and if they're suffering from something that they think maybe like this, hopefully this helps them out. Yeah, and definitely don't climb it a cell tower to try to. Figure it out. Now. I don't recommend anyone climbing towers anyways. I have a fear of heights, so I recommend everyone to stay on the ground. Exactly. All right, Well, you have a great night. Yeah you too, yep. I. If you would like to be a guest on Tinfoil Tels, remember to send an email to Tenfoil Tells Podcast to gmail dot com, or you can also go to Tenfoiltales dot com and go to the contact section. 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