Ep. 151: The Alchemist of the Indiana Black Forest

And I just turned around and I call ass out of there. I was done. I wasn't dealing with them. The hypocrisy of the cult is one of the things that turned me away the quickest. When I turned my head lights on, it turned and looked at us. And one of the things I remember the most where the eyes were going red. I see an orb of light. It is just circling these steps. Like it is waiting for me. And he begins to tell them that he saw UFO. They're basically like, what are you talking about. That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it, and that's where I saw. The top of the muzzle, noose and the eyes. As soon as I made eye contact with this thing, I don't like death. Welcome back to Tenfoil Tals. I'm your host Brandon Wright. Night's episode. We're gonna be joined by my guest Alan and Ken Bishop. They are distillers. They also have a podcast called If You Have Ghosts, You Have Everything. I talked to Alan back in the springtime, had a great conversation with him. Want to have him come on ours. I want to have him come on my show talk with them tonight. But before we bring them on you've ever had an experience and you'd like to be on an episode of ten foil Tels, there's a couple things you can do. You can either send an email to tenfoil Tales podcast at gmail dot com, or you can go to tenfoiltel dot com and go to the contact section. Just make sure to reach out to me. We'll get some to the schedule for a future episode. If you'd like to help the podcast out, please share it around where the mouth helps podcast grow. You can also leave a five star rating in review wherever you listen to tenfoiltels at. You can also join the Patreon because if you're like me and you don't like hearing all the ads on the Patreon, you get early access to all the episodes and they're all at free. There's a pay tier and a free tier. The pay tier is only one dollar a nine nine since a month. It's worth checking out. If you're interested in helping support ten foil Tals, you can find more information about that in the show notes. Make sure to follow me on all the social media's, and if you're interested in wearing some ten foil Tels gear, make sure to reach out and get something arranged. We are going to go ahead now and bring on Alan and Kim dive into the conversation. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. I'd like to take this time to welcome my guests tonight, Alan and Kim, thanks for coming on here and talking to me. Absolutely. Would you like to let the audience know a little bit about yourself? Yeah, sure so. My name is Alan Bishop. I call myself the Alchemist of Indiana's Black Forest. I know that sounds ridiculous, and it should sound ridiculous. I make fun of myself for it, but that title is part and parcel to my spirituality and also to my career. I'm a distiller in southern Indiana and a place that used to be known as the Black Forest, which would be Washington, Orange, Lawrence, Crawford, Harrison, and Perry Counties. It was once the. Capital of apple brandy production for not only the United States, but for the entire world. And I distill for a living currently and permanently now. I hope at Old Homestead Distillery out at Patoka Lake here in southern Indiana, right in the middle of the Who's your National Forestry, which has got a ton of stories around it, and we're hoping to collect some more of those. But in addition to that, I do a lot of distilling education, and I write an almanac that includes the fourteen and sort of the occult, but is catered towards distillers mostly. And we run another podcast that we call if You Have Ghosts, You Have Everything. That would be Kim, my wife and myself, and I will let her to her intro because I'm not sure how she wants to be introduced. Well, I'm much less interesting than Alan. I am a stay at home mom, and I guess uh folk readings online and occasionally in person locally. And the chief chauffeur and chef in. The house chaos coordinator. Chaos coordinator. That's it. Yes, yes, it's a great title. Part of that cut out from her, I don't know what I'll I don't know if it's the internet or a while, but your voice cut out there might. Be as short in the soundboard. Have you got me now? Yeah? I can hear you now, okay, okay. And I also leaned back. That could have probably did it too. Yeah, you got to face that mic because you're you don't have a boom stand so. Okay, yeah, so do you want me to redo it or what? Are you good with it? I mean, I'm good with her. There's like maybe five seconds where there was just silence, so I. Could just okay, that's fine, Okay, I. Will lean back. I talked with my hands though, So. I do very little editing, so when this episode airs, we're probably going to hear this part of it too. No, that's all good. It's all good. We try to handle if you have ghosts the same way most of the time, unless there's unless some I slipped something and says something they're not supposed to, and then then we cut it out. But for the most. Part, I try and leave everything as authentic as possible. So that is how I go about it. And sometimes I've had to go here recently because there were certain words that were used that I didn't want in the show because it will actually get me flagged and kicked off certain platforms because there's certain words you can't say these days. Yeah, they're not bad words, but for some reason they're deemed bad words. Yeah. Absolutely, well, and you know we do the same as you, being as authentic as you can with your editing. That's kind of how we live our life, I mean, who we are. And what we do with the podcast and our various platforms and all that stuff. None of it is none of it is character driven necessarily. It's all. It's all just an extension of who we are. I mean, we live the uh uh, the old school distillers' lifestyle here in southern Indiana, which includes you know, farm distilling and a deep reverence for all things spiritual and supernatural. And you know, we've just. Started to lean into that a little bit more publicly in the past few years. And that's what our podcast, If You Have Ghosts grew out of was hearing all kinds of other distillers and knowing the history of distilling in Indiana talk you know, people talking about their paranormal experiences at their distilleries and hoping to provide a platform to those people tell their stories. But it turns out it's a whole lot harder to get distillers to come forward and talk about their stories than we thought. So it's transformed into all kinds of stories over the years. But it's all it's all interrelated as far as we're concerned with the with the alchemy and you know, her her Green witchery and my hermetic gnostic philosophy, and they're all part of the same overall thing and it's all an authentic piece of who we are. What led you to all this? Like, is this something you're familiar with from an early age? Is of something that you were just drawn into? The distilling part of it? I've been around my whole life. So my family they all came from Kentucky, from Oneida, Kentucky, which is down in eastern Kentucky Clay County. And then my dad's family they came up from Green County, Kentucky, and they bought a farm here in Pek in Indiana. They moved up here to get jobs at the Kimball's factories called Boreden Cabinet Factory back in the day, because there were no jobs in Greensburg. And when they bought the farm, they also decided that they would raise tobacco for a few years. They raised chickens and stuff, and they also you know, made moonshine on the side. My mom's family much more so than my dad's family. But I grew up in what I call a family of vice here in southern Indiana. Is we like to call it who's you occupied Northern Kentucky, which you abbreviate it spells honkey, which is kind of funny but and fitting at the same time. But we we raised tobacco and we made moonshine because that's how we paid for property taxes and paid for Christmas gifts. And as far as the spiritual, the paranormal, the supernatural and all that stuff, my family, being from Kentucky, had a long. History with that stuff. There's a story about the time that my great grandfather quote unquote met the devil that's traveled in our family for a long time. It always stuck with me. And then you know, being from eastern Kentucky, there's a lot of you know, hillfolk knowledge. But for example, you know, my my Grandma Bishop, my my dad's mom. She was as Baptist as they would come, as they could come. But she did things and she knew things that I didn't realize as a child, and I spent a lot of time with her. I didn't realize as a child that what she was doing would would be considered like Granny Witchery. You know, she knew she knew about herbs, and she knew about their medical uses and she knew about the spiritual realm, and she knew all this folklore essentially, And if she were alive and she heard me call it Granny witchery, she'd smack the hell out of me, without a doubt. But that's what she was doing. She was doing stuff that was passed down like old cunning folk traditions from England that were passed down through her family that I'm sure she didn't even know, you know, what the origins were. But like a great example would be. You wouldn't call it spell work, but it's not not spell work. You go through the Book of Psalms and you find something that fits what you're looking for, what you're asking for, and so that becomes almost like a spell. And the way that you're saying it or repeating it like a mantra or like with divination. She would do a bibliomancy, so she you know, she might wake up and flip through a Bible with her eyes closed and point at somewhere andom passage and then open her eyes and then that's how she was sort of looking at, well, you know, what's going to happen in the near term future, what's coming down the pike, as it were, and it didn't occur to me until much later that's exactly what she was doing. So I grew up around all that, and then the undercurrent here as well. And Kim's family has been here in Washington County, Indiana since about eighteen twelve or so, so they have very deep roots here. But this region itself is sort of sort of magical in many ways. The sixth County region and some of the other counties surrounding it are pretty interesting. Most of the people who settled here were of German ancestry. Now they would have come, you know, out of Maryland and out of Virginia and out of the Carolinas, et cetera to get here. But those Germans, those Black Forest Germans, they held on to a lot of their folklore and a lot of their magic, and it got ingrains in many ways within the very landscape of where we live at, just to the degree that some of those concepts you might even consider Tulpa's like they were spoken into existence because people talked about them so frequently. And then that's also meshed up against a little bit of Scots Irish and a little bit of Welsh here, and then a lot of what people don't realize is still old French influence from the fur trapping days. You know, there's Loop Greu legends and all that stuff here in southern India. A little hard to find. You got to really dig to get to them. But they left an impression on the landscape, as did the Adena and the Hope Well and what they used to call the Southern Death Cult. It's now called the Southern Southern Ceremonial. Complex is what it's called. But it was the mound builders in this region, and they were tied into the Mesoamericans all the way down to grottos, and human sacrifice in the whole nine yards was all happening here where we're at. And people don't realize the depth of. History and haunted history and fourteen history here in Indiana because we have this sort of concept that nothing good could ever possibly come from Indiana. I'm pretty sure that we're the only state. I give you an example. I'm pretty sure we're the only state where this the following happens. Nothing good or cool could have ever happened here, could ever possibly happen in the future. Right, we don't have any real cool culture or anything like that we have people who were born in this state who never left this state to go to school, and whose family has been here since you know, the eighteen hundreds, and yet somehow they have a UK basketball placard somewhere on their vehicle. Right, It's pretty sure this is the only state where that happens. I don't think that happens anywhere else. So, and it's a shame because we have every bit as deep a history as any other state has. It's a little bit different. You know, we were part of the Western Frontier. I mean we had Johnny apple Seed. How cool is that? Right? We got here in Washington County, Indiana, we've got the burial site for Makaijah Calloway. And Makaija Calloway is a great American folk hero who nobody knows the name of. He was Daniel Boone's forward scout. This was the guy that was going out twenty thirty miles out in front of Daniel Boone and reporting back to him and saying things like. Well, you don't want to go that way. You know, I don't know it's on that other trail over there, but you don't want to go on the one that. I went down. So there's all that stuff is here, and it all feeds into the culture, the folklore, the ghosts that haunt the landscape here. There's land spirits the town that we live in. There's been a lot of high strangeness in the past, stuff that we thought that only us in our neighbors experience, but we found out later on that other friends of ours and different parts of town had experienced. It is an interesting place. You just got to You have to be attuned to it, You have to be paying attention to catch it all, and you have to be able to sort of thread the needle to put it all together and and. Sort of see the bigger picture with it. So one of the things I just thought of, and it's completely my eighty eight HD brain over. But when you mentioned, like Daniel Buna's scouting the trails and everything, I had this image of what Indiana would have looked like without all the cornfields, and was it all foresty areas it was? It was like, was the whole state basically like big forests, And I think like even most of the country if you think about it, like I feel like a lot of this area was all covered in trees. So there's a lot of trees that got cut down during this whole time frame. Well, and you know that part of that's related to distilling. But I so most of our most of our old growth hardwood from Indiana. I'll tell you where it's at right now. If you ever go through any of the river towns on the Ohio River, Mississippi River, go down to New Orleans, Louisiana, and you. See shotgun houses. Those are old flatboats that. Came out of Indiana and Kentucky and Ohio and Pennsylvania and all those places. That's all of our old growth timber. But when weed were when we were the western Front and this was surveyed, the forest was crazy. So there are these tales of for example, chestnut trees that were the size of redwoods and the understory tree was sugar maple and they were sixty foot tall at the first branch. For example, huge conifer trees. The area just a little bit west of US, over towards Campbelsburg, Indiana, and you get over towards Harrison County, Indiana. They called the trails that went through there, they called them the airlock because they said it was like going into a tunnel or into a cave, and they said it was just miserable in the summertime because even though it was shaded, all the heat that was there was trapped that couldn't go anywhere. There wasn't any wind or anything through there anywhere. But it was also cleared out because the natives here in the area were practicing this sort of wild wild agriculture in some ways. I don't really know how you would say it, because it's not even like planned, like the way that Europeans would plan in agriculture. But they're just taming the landscape to some degree, right and selecting for things that they can find in the wild to eat. And so there were no you know, they kept everything very clean. There was no real underbrush or anything of that nature. But when we say Black Forests of southern Indiana, it was literally a forest. And part of that still exists in the Hoosion National Forestry and the dn R regions and even even more towards civilization. Where we're at we're about thirty minutes north Louisville. You know, there's not. Huge tracts of woods. There are some, but there's a lot of large patches of broken woods. So it's still pretty. Heavily forested, and I just came to the realization this last fall. One thing that I've always missed here in southern Indiana, never thought of, just with the wild trees alone and paying attention to what grows, this whole place is an orchard. The whole place is an orchard, truly. Between the nuts trees and the persimon trees and the wild peaches and you know, the pope trees and all that stuff, it's all a giant orchard. I feel like there's so much going on with Indiana and it's the flyover state thanks to that country song, but for me, it's it's a I've always heard about the weird stuff that goes on around here, but you don't hear anyone outside of Indiana really mentioned Indian. No, no, you don't, You really don't, unfortunately, and even on other podcasts, I mean Southern Indiana stories in particular in Northern Indiana, I think is the same way, but you rarely hear those stories on podcasts. And I don't know if that's just Hoosiers have this tendency to be a little bit solitary and everything that they do to some degree and I'm not entirely sure what that comes from or what that is. You know, we're a little clannish, kind of like eastern Kentucky, I think, especially down here in the southern part of the state. Traditionally we have been, we've been, we've all been very tight, and so they're certain things that you don't say to everybody, or you don't tell everybody, but they float around locally. And then we also, unfortunately, one of the things I've run into with my love of folklore and my love of collecting these stories and telling them through. If you have ghosts, you have everything is Indiana State University has got a huge collection of folklore, but it's not available to the public any state. Well altogether, the whole thing is yeah, but are you Bloomington. Yeah, it's not available to the public. It's it's it's off limits. You know, if you're not part of the program, you can't get to it. And that that sort of that sort of aggravates me because it doesn't belong to them, it belongs to all of us. There's an archive, for example, out of Evansville and Vincent's of the old French legends, and the vast majority of them several hundred pages worth are not available to anyone. They have it in their archive, but it's not available to any body. And so so you. Know, somebody has an experience now with something strange, where are they going to go and be able to even find the information about whether or not something like that has happened in the past and someone's reported it, and oftentimes that old folklore is where it was reported at. All. Right, you mentioned several times, and I was going to mention it. I was wait till you're done talking. But the Indiana like the forest, the National Forest, I've been told within the last two weeks that I need to come down there because of you'd mentioned the basically for the terms of everyone listening, where wolves. The French version is the rugaroo. But that is what I was told to go down there for because of all these reports of where wolves and dog men type things in the forest. I said, well, for starters, it's pretty far from me to drive to and completely off top of but this is a funny story. I'm I'm wanting to find a place where I can actually go out there and film mhm, like this is what I would like to do. I was trying to talk to my friend into doing this with me, and uh, there was a property that we're talking about and going to and he said, what happens if we actually find something? Yeah? Yeah, So I don't know what. I don't know what the plan will be for that, right, but hey, at least I have proof. You're you. You get into this area down here, and you get around the Who's your National forest or you'll be in the You'll be in the limestone cars. There's a lot of caves, a lot of protected lands. Uh, there's trail heads everywhere. The Who's Your National Forestry is massive easily. I give you an example. So Crawford County where I work. At the Tooka Lakes over there, and of course it's surrounded by Indiana DNR and that's sort of in the heart of Who's Your National Forestry? And then there's Tillery Hill Forestry, and then there's a Mother Pioneer Mother's Forestry, and a bunch of these other forestries around between Orange County and Crawford County. But Crawford County alone, there's only nine thousand residents in Crawford County. There could be anything in Crawford County and nobody would really ever know, not really, but sort of on the topic of the loop Guru or where Wolf's rupero, et cetera, I think, and I think my wife would agree that the vast majority of that, or the dog man stuff or whatever anybody wants to put their finger on it, from our experience that we had here on our farm several years ago, most of it is trickster spirit stuff. And I think that it is very intimately connected to that Southern death complex that I talked about earlier. It's a scar on the land. It feeds off of fear, and it can be anything that you want to imagine it can be. We've heard so many stories about, you know, people finding weird tracks, people seeing big dog like creatures, people seeing bigfoot, people seeing UFOs, and they're all part of the same story, including the stories of what we experienced here on our farm, which I am more determined than ever that that's exactly what it was, was some sort of trickster And when we showed that we weren't afraid of it anymore and weren't going to feed it any fear anymore, it stopped bothering us. It still bothers the neighbors sometimes. It still bothers my dad sometimes, But yes, did it looked like to you guys, that. Was the funny thing. It could it was. It was ever saw it because at the time I was working off of the farm. It was before we got married, and he was farming time, so he was here all the time. I never physically saw it. All the things that I experienced were auditory phenomenon or like the things that we saw after the effect that after the fact things the tracks, the marks on the trees, the weird stacking of the wood and the stove, and you know, the auditory things. But go ahead, Alan you Oh there was. There was all kinds of weird things involved. So there there were. Local sidings of mountain lions but just you know, sort of disappeared into nothingness, local sidings of big black cats, uh ufo sidings, basically orange balls of lights. The tracks were very much of a very large canine persuasion, much larger than any any dog or wolf you could possibly imagine. There was as crazy as it sounds, and it's still weird for me to even say it. There was an incident that involved a what for all intents and purposes, looked like a Cessna airplane in our half. Mile long driveway. That was it like in the morning. Yeah, that that. Had we're kind of back from my house. Had no no. I mean it had a cockpit and everything, but there was no one in it and it didn't have to uh, it just took off from the ground, just straight up and then gone, that's a weird one. It was a very weird one. It definitely was, and it made me question my own reality and sanity. For a while. But we weren't. We weren't the only ones experiencing these things. It was also the neighbors and my parents, And later we found out that a friend had had some experiences that the thing that he saw looked very much like what you might consider like a pan like figure or like a goat man or something of that nature. And then we just had a very good friend of ours, a descendant of the McCoy and wolf Distilling families of Orange County that I've done a lot of research on. She grew up over in the Hoosion National Forestry, and she told us some stories that are are very very similar that we just put out for our Halloween episode of If You Have Ghosts about things that she experienced when she was a kid, involving a light hovering over her house and it getting incredibly hot, and a ritual circle and screams from the woods, and the weird thing is So, I'll give you an example of what we went through. So so, and I guess I could tell you like the short version of that story, because it's it's kind of a convoluted and complicated. Story about three years. Part of it was three years. Sorry I cleared my throat. But the long and short of it is, so, we have a neighbor that is he's a good old boy, is what he is. And he's uh, he's he's up there in age now, but he he's not one for Shenanigans of any kind. If you were to ask him to his face if he believed in the supernatural, he he might say yes, but then he wouldn't say anything else. You know. He's he's a he's a farm boy. He's raised cattle his whole life. He's been a mechanic his whole life, et cetera. And in the fall of one year, when I was farming full time, we had two greenhouses that I kept heated because we raising tomatoes through the wintertime and various other crops. And he on the back corner of his. Farm where it meets our farm and two other neighbors. There's no houses back there or anything. It's pretty rural area. He had planted a little. I guess, like a. Hunting stand of sortum basically, And he called one night and we had heard some weird things in the woods. And as I say, we heard some weird things in the woods, Like we heard like some growling, and we'd heard some what you might call howling, and some knocking, and just various little things that you're like, oh, that was kind of weird, but you don't think much of it, right. I mean, there's a lot of things. We're next to an old railroad track, you know, anything that was caught in the middle of the county. As far as wildlife, if it wanted out of the middle of the county, told take the tracks. So it's not uncommon to see a lot of wildlife in the area. And we do have bobcats and that sort of thing here. But he one night and he's like he was, and I could tell when I heard him on the phone he was a little freaked out and He's like, I kind of need you guys to come back here and look at something. And uh so, all right, well let's go. He even said, I'll never forget this because I couldn't believe he said it. He goes, I don't I don't know how to explain it. He goes, it looks like a crop circle. And I'm thinking, like. He's he's messing with us in some way shape or for him, which would be out of character for him too. Because he's not like that. But nonetheless, me and my dad went back and we looked at it, and for all intents and purposes, it did. It looked like, not like an intricate design crop circle, but like the ones that you see that You're like, something here is off and I can't put my finger on what it is. The way that the actual crop was bent was at forty five degree angles and in a spiral, and I won't say that they were perfect circles, but something was just a little little. Weird about the situation in general. This was about the same time that his wife had reported seeing a mountain lion come out of the top of the barn, but she didn't know where it went to, whether and who knows. Maybe she didn't see where it went, maybe it just disappeared, because we had seen several times several people had seen a large black cat kind of do the same maneuver. And we even have legends of that here in Pekan. It's called the peakan panther, and that's the thing that's existed at least since the nineteen fifties that we know of. Nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties. In this same sort of time period, you know, we start we start hearing. A little bit more in the woods. And when I say we start hitting a little bit more in the woods, an example would be we had two beagle dogs. One was a Lemon beagle, one was. A tricolor, and they started getting real skittish at night. And not only did they get real skittish, we noticed that when they were real skittish and they'd come flying back to the house, I mean they would hit the door hard. I mean they'd hit the door as hard as they could. If they couldn't knock the door down, they would have wanting back in the house, and he let them in. They wouldn't go back out all night long. They refused to And same time that that's happening. We noticed that as they're getting skittish, we could hear coyotes, which are common here. But the coyotes we would hear, they wouldn't come anywhere near the property or the neighboring properties. It's like they were in a circle. Essentially all the way around the area, but they never would come in any closer. And then one night we got a call from the neighbor that lives down the hill from us, a step cousin of mine, and he literally I answered the phone and his first words are are you hearing this? And I was like, am I hearing what? And he goes go outside. He goes, are you dogs inside? And I'm like, yeah, dogs are inside. He goes, We'll go outside and listen. And so we went out on the porch and it was me and Kim and my mom and my dad and often in the woods back behind his place. He lives right in the edge of the woods, but back towards the back side of the woods. I don't even know how you could possibly explain it. It sounded like whatever it or they were, were huge, and they whatever these things were, were just absolutely going at one another. And I mean We're talking like tear each other, tearing each other up, and it doesn't sound like normal animals. I mean, the closest thing that we ever found were some of the various bigfoot howls and woots and some of the dog man calls. And I'm not saying it was it was bigfoot and dog man at all, and I'll get to that in a minute. Why I don't think it was either one of those. And it was loud. I mean the sound was loud enough it would vibrate your chest, vibrating. Your chest, and you could actually hear like trees falling. Yeah, it sounded like they're breaking over big trees, I mean, good sized trees. And I told I told him, I said, I don't, I don't know what hell that is, and he goes, well, I don't. He kind of just laughed. He goes, well I don't either, And you know, we we sort of listened to it until it stopped. And it just all of a sudden stopped. And so the next day, being the dumb hillbilly that I am, I was like, well, I gotta go out to the woods and see if I can find anything. So I walked back there to where I knew it was at and I walked that whole area of the woods and I never saw and this was in the fall of the year. I never saw one leaf out of place. I never saw anything that wasn't just broken from a storm. I never saw any evidence of any kind of struggle. There was no blood, there was no nothing. And I still don't know entirely what to make of that. But what I can tell you is things only got weirder from there, And because we had paid attention to it, it seemed like it had fed off of that, and it sort of strengthened it, and it strengthened it to the degree that it knew that we were paying at ten and it was it would wait until you got to a moment where you weren't worried about it anymore, like, Okay, nothing weird has happened today, and then that's when something weird would happen. And it seemed like whatever we wanted to say that it was. Because we're human, we immediately start speculating it. Well, we hear, was that bigfoot or was that, you know, something else? And that was before I think I even knew the word dog man, you know, But I know the sound of a canine when I hear a canine, obviously, So the little beagle dog, for example, she she got ripped up bad by something two separate times. Now, that could have been wildlife or whatever, but it was also on nights where weird things would be happening. And she didn't die, she almost did twice, and we still we had never figured that out. Now, the older dog, he never had not a scratch on him, and I can't imagine. I saw him roll a coyote that was after her one time, So if it had been local wildlife, he'd have went after it. Whatever it was. He was terrib of, absolutely terrified of. So that never made much sense to me, But we would if we were For example, let's say we were watching something about the paranormal and this is literally the way. That it happened. It was crazy. We were watching like ghost Hunters, yea, or something on Halloween or whatever. Yeah, we would be watching something about ghosts. And then my dad is in his bedroom, he's asleep, he's got the door closed. It's a new house, relatively new house. The door there has never opened before. It was, Yeah, it was you had to pull the door tight. To get it to close, and we're standing there and we literally see the doorknob turn and the door yeah and pop and the door open. Oh, that's a little weird. And then when I was a kid, my grandfather said, and I'll say Native American instead of indianner. However, I need to say this here. I'm not sure what is politically correct anymore with this, but he would jokingly say about in the wintertime, right, he would say, I hope it snows asshole deep to a tall Indian. Now where that come from, I don't know, but it was just the thing that he would say. Well, my dad for some reason started messing with the dogs sometimes and he'd be like, hey, did you see that tall Indian walk through. The living room? Well, he doesn't. The dogs never respond to it. He does this though one night, and the dog's point and watch, like. And watch something walk from the kitchen all the way down the hallway m hm, and like, watch the point that they're perked up with their ears up and growling. And then shortly thereafter, the old rocking chair that's in the living room starts rocking back and forth. So that's that's high strangeness as far as I'm concerned. Now. Meanwhile, this thing that's in the woods, we're still hearing it, and we're hearing it more and more frequently, and other weird little things are happening. So we start talking about like the little people. There's a long history of like the Puckwudgies, that was the thing here in southern Indiana as well, amongst the Delaware and a Shawnee. In fact, there's a park here in Washington County, Indiana that they considered so sacred that it was off limits. They wouldn't go there, and it's the one place in southern Indiana that I will never go again myself alone, for various other reasons. But we started this conversation. And shortly after we started this conversation, I swear, and when you say it it sounds insane, but we heard footsteps on the roof, like running, like somebody had put their five year old child on the roof of the house and it ran from one end to the other. And, of course, being the good redneck I am, I go get the shotgun and I go outside and it's winter time and there's nothing there and there's no footprints anywhere or anything. We go back in and here it goes again. Never do see anything whatsoever. Yeah, Well, there was a day during the middle of the day, I was setting at my computer and I saw it. Kim was at work, and I saw something of the corner of my eye out of the window over on the neighboring fence line. And the best I could possibly tell you what it resembled as far as things that people have talked about is when people talk about the Ohio Grassman. Something that looked vaguely sasquatch but wasn't real tall maybe six foot six foot five something like that at the most, and it was clearly on the fence line. And called me at work and told me. And the crazy thing about it was when I saw it, I saw it out of the corner of my eye. I looked over, I looked correctly at it, and there's no way it could have seen me where I was at, but it it was like it knew that I had seen it, and so it slinked down and sort of slinked along the fence line and disappeared along the fence line. And there's only brush there. There's no real trees or anything. I didn't go investigate that one I just kind of left. That was at the point where I was kind of done with it. At that point, other weird things started or had happened as well, So like with the footprint or with the footsteps that we heard on the roof. We were running wood fired stoves in the greenhouse and normally we'd have to go out and you know, throw wood on those about every three. Or four hours, something like that. And at the time, we were buying these cut off pieces of rough oak. Friend of my dad's, he has a Pallette company, and so we get these blocks that are foot two foot long and about six inches thick or so, and so they make their perfect for stacking up in a firebox. And Kim and. I had fallen asleep or whatever, and she left late that night, and I knew that the fires were going to be out, and she would usually check the fires before she went back to her house, and that night I told her to go on because I knew I was probably gona have to restart them because I hadn't checked them in several of awser real cold outside too. And I walked out to the greenhouse and I opened the door and it was probably ninety degrees in there. I was like, oh cool, So I guess I got just enough of a fire to you know, keep it rolling or whatever. And so I go open the door to the stove and the stove is one hundred percent full of wood that looks like it has just been put in there, like and perfectly stacked. Like I don't stack the wood the way this was stacked. This was stacked like it was like somebody was making a structure. All right, that's weird. Now. At the same time that this happened, there was a the greenhouses we had, they're they're just polyplastic, you know, a greenhouse plus at six milo plastic, and they had there was an inflated layer in between two panels of plastic, and we had something that had At the same time, there was a hole at the base board of the greenhouse back by the stove where something had ripped into the greenhouse and ripped through both layers of plastic. Didn't mess with anything. There's right, tomatoes and everything in there at the time, didn't leave any marks or anything anywhere. Yeah, and went right back out the same way it came in, apparently. And and to be sure of this, I thought, because we had some cats outside the time. Maybe a cat got stuck in there and maybe it called its way out. But the marks on the plastic weren't from the inside out, they were from the outside inn And then, to make it even weirder, when I went to the bottom greenhouse, that fire was the same way it was built up. So now, what in the hell like is doing you favors? You're now you're into weird irish mythology with brownies and that sort of stuff. So that was all really strange. There was another night where and it's hard to remember timelines. This may have been, may have even been the nights that we got called back there to the little crop circle thing. I don't remember. Me and Dad went out. It had to have been because Mike called us about something. But we had heard something out in the woods and the coyotes were just out. There was a couple of coyotes just out in our woods, just losing their ever loving shit. And then something else yelled back at him, and you could hear all the other coyote scatter and saw it again. Like a good redneck, I'd got in the back of my dad's truck with a shotgun and he drove the truck, because that's how all good horror movies start. And we go up and over this little hill and there's a little valley there, and we come over that hill, I see a coyote come running out of the woodline, and we've got the headlights on on the truck and everything, and the coyotes, you know, normally they're pretty shy, they'll run awf. Well, this one stopped and it turned and it looked back at the woods and it started just yapping at the woods, and so I took a couple shots at it. I wasn't actually aiming at the coyote. I thought, well, that's weird yapping back at the woods. That's a pretty strange thing. And I wasn't trying to hit it. I was just sort of trying and scare it off. Well, I shot within a couple of feet of it a couple times, and it just stood there and kept yapping at the woods. And so we drove back in the woods and never did see anything. And it stopped after that. And then there was the airplane thing that happened one night. I was coming back home from Kim's house and I pulled into the driveway and there's a long straight stretch of driveway before you get to the railroad tracks, and literally I can see when I pull in, like there's something in the driveway, and I thought it was a vehicle at first, and get closer to it, and it looks, for all intents and purposes, like a little one or two seater Cessna airplane. And I get out and walk up. Towards it and get pretty damn close to it, close enough to see there's nobody in it, and it literally takes off like a helicopter, straight up into the air, and then as fast as you can imagine, gone just zips away. And I'd literally that night, I just walked back to my truck and I was like, no, no, not tonight. Now, we're not even gonna We're not gonna think about this. We're not gonna We're just gonna let it go, because how do you interpret something of that nature. Nobody's gonna believe you. And now, granted, nowadays, you could look back on that be like, well, maybe that was a drone. I don't know that it wasn't, but what the hell would it have been doing in our driveway? And why would it look exactly like a Cessna right, you know, unless it was. Something with the government. How big a cross do you think it was? I don't know. I'd say maybe maybe twenty foot maybe. I don't know what the distance is between the train tracks and the the. Wings didn't reach the train tracks, so I don't know. I could. I have to get a measurement. But it wasn't big. I mean it was it was small, like you know, little little common amateur you know airplane. That you see basically you have those drones that are about that size. But why in the hell of a dromat or truck? Right, And this would have been two thousand and eight, two thousand dollars, Yeah, maybe a little later, maybe two. Thousand and nine something like that. But yeah, and it was as I remember that. Got sick because we would tell him the stories and he just thought we were crazy. Yeah, it was. It was painted quote unquote painted for all intents and purposes, uh red. It was white with like red pin striping. But it also didn't seem to have any inherent lights on it, like none of the little red light like strobe lights or any of that. Sound. Yeah, it never made a noise. It just when it took off there was no no sound to it. There was no wind, there was no nothing, and then just gone. So I'd still am at a loss on that one. This all sort of culminated. There was a lot of other little stuff too, but it all culminated one night. There was yeah, they were I don't even remember how it started, but a lot was going on and I had had enough of it, and so I took, like a good red neck, I took a shotgun outside and down below my greenhouses, which are the bottom was probably fifty yards from my parents' house, and it's probably another it's called seventy five yards down to the edge of the woods, and I had a little security light behind the lower greenhouse. I went outside because we had heard something and I was done, and I'd had enough of this whole thing, I. Was told because I'm not graceful. Yeah, So I walked down to the first greenhouse and I could see, like I heard stuff walk out of the woods. And what I saw, I never saw any detail, but I will tell you that whatever they were, and it was multiples of whatever it was or whatever it was trying to appear to be, came out of the woods on four legs and stood on two legs thereafter, and that was about all of it I could take. And I and I honestly I should not have ever have done this, but I did it, and I'll say that I did it, and I learned my lesson from it because I went through some some spiritual stuff after this happened that I think was directly related to it. But I took a shot at it at one of them. I didn't I wasn't even aiming at any particular one. I just saw that there were several of them in a group, and whatever it was was at least physical enough or reacting physically. So when I say I shot at it, I shot at it with a twelve gage slug. And yeah, so it lets out this noise that would just make your blood curdle, this scream, and then it slash. They take off through the woods and again just sounding like they're knocking down huge trees and branches and screaming the whole way, and screaming in such a way that you know that it's not some kind of native animal, but also screaming in a way that sounds just human enough to make you feel terrible, but you can tell that that's not what it is right, and so that I had to walk back to the porch. I look at him, I said, I don't know what go back in the house. I don't know what makes that noise. And then after that, the next day, I just I woke up and I was and I had a moment of I'm not I'm not scared of this thing anymore, because clearly this thing is feeding off of feeding off of me being afraid of it, and it's messing with me. And I went through the woods and I didn't take any weapons with me or anything. And I looked once again, no blood, no trail anywhere. We know the spot where a bullet grazed the tree. Yep, that was it. But that was it. That was it, and that was that was it for the experiences as far as that stuff goes. Yeah, anything that happened after that was not nearly as extreme. I mean we would still hear the wolves and the tree knocks and occasionally rocks getting thrown and things like that, but for us at that point, that phenomenon slacked off drastically. Now the neighbor would call us and say, not not the same neighbor in this story, but his daughter. She would call us, like when she was out feeding the bottle calves and stuff and say, oh, the tree knockers back or the rock throwers back and things like that. But for us, like only one or two occasions where we've like walked outside and smelled like that that weird musty smell that you associate with like bigfoot. And and like the next morning when his dad would come down to go to work, because they work together at the distillery, he would say, oh, yeah, he was messing with my woodstove. He was messing in the spare room in the house, and I scared him. Yeah, my dad is firmly convinced that it's bigfoot. I am. I am in no way shot. I do not believe in any way, shape or form that that's what it is or was. I believe that it was the archetype of a trickster. I believe it's intimately connected to this piece of property, well to the wider area here, not just this piece of property. And I think that it it interferes and appears in certain people's lives, not necessarily for a negative but not also necessarily for a positive reason. But it is it is a creature of immense power that is there a signal that there is massive change coming in your life? And I should never have taken a shot at it, like I said, And that's that's something that in hindsight now I wish I had not done. If I were, if I were going to do anything differently, it would have been to find a way at that time to spiritually fortify myself and face up to it in some way, shape or form. Do you think taking a shot of those why it stays away? Now? I think that what I don't. I don't think that that's why it stays away. I think it stays away because of that next trip. Into the woods. We're I'm not afraid of it. Yep, where I'm not armed, I'm not. I'm no longer even mad about it at that point, right there was I had such an immense amount of guilt, and Kim knows that it's such an immense amount of guilt about it that night, like I was, that was it I did. I wasn't. I wasn't doing it, and I had that. I also had that feeling though that whatever this is feeding off of me being afraid of it, and it it it inherently knew whether it was physical or spiritual, and I do believe it was spiritual, but it can incorporate physical aspects. It knew that I was on that farm all the time by myself, because there would be weeks at a time that I wasn't leaving the farm, and it knew that. And there were other little things that would happen during the daytime, you know, out in a cornfield and here comes a random, you know, small. Little pebble or rock or whatever. There was always some kind of little something happening, like it was sort of testing the waters. Some of it, it's not terribly dissimilar to you know, what we later found out happened with like Skinwalker Ranch and some of that kind of stuff, that same sort of I guess energy or whatever you want to call it. It's like, I don't know if I'm going to get it completely wrong or but it's almost like that old God type stuff. Yes, very much so, very much so. And and like I said, something distinct is distinct about it in my mind at least distinctly tied to Southern Indiana. And the more stories that I collect, the more I see that other people have experienced things very very very similar to this, and and I do you do wonder to some degree, especially let's say, with and wherever these things ultimately originally came from. I'm you know, I had my own spiritual thoughts on that stuff, but that's you know, that's not on me to preach that to anybody one way shape, for it wouldn't really. Be preaching anyways. But I do have to wonder if maybe that Southern Death complex and also another group. I don't know, if you're familiar with the legend of Prince Mattock and the and the quote unquote white Indians here in southern Indiana from Wales, they they were in this local area as well. But I do wonder with some of the grotto worship and all that stuff, you know, if there's just there's just something here that, you know, maybe they revered to some degree, and when the circumstances are right, and maybe even when it's warranted and or needed, it shows back up and it shows itself to people that need to see it. I don't even know, like for around these areas, I know we had you mentioned you said that I don't know what the correct term is. They still call themselves Miami Indians up here, So I guess it's it's okay to call them that. Yeah, But I reached out to someone recently because I've had a lot of people tell me that they've encountered something like I've been countered up here and the old legends for their tribe was there used to be a wolf people, yeah, that were around here, and they did not respond to me. Huh, Well, now, well here's another one. My mom and I've talked about this publicly, and she knows I've talked about it publicly, so I'll do it here too. After all of our stuff, my mom is you know, she's spent more. Time on the farm alone than than probably anyone over than my grandma did, even when my grandma was younger. My mom's disabled and so she you know, she was one of the victims of you know, the over prescription and abuse of opiate drugs several years back, and had a lot of real issues. So I always have taken since that time. I've always taken things that my mom has said with a. Grain of salt. Now she's she's got that shit. That phase of her life seems to be done and over with now, thankfully. But my mom did have some experiences or what she claimed to be experiences. And I will tell you this that shortly after maybe a year or two, maybe three years, after all of our stuff, while they were still experiencing things, and I think we were on the verge of moving out, I think, but we hadn't yet, and I'd started working at a brandy distillery in Louisville, Kentucky. My mom, there's two experiences I guess we should talk about there. She swore that she saw what she described as a Native American with a full headdress, which is not something that happened here in southern Indiana. The full headdress thing didn't sounds so much like the Waynes World thing, weird naked Indian man, but that he was, you know, standing on the hillside there above the house, and when she first saw him, she just, you know, she just kind of, I guess, initially saw him as a naked man. And she tried to talk to him, but he wouldn't say anything. He just kept staring at her, and she tried to talk to him again and he didn't say anything, and so she went on in the house and looked out the window and he she said that he just sort of faded off into nothingness. Another time she called, and to be fair, she did have a drug thing happened that day, but there's some corroborating evidence of some weirdness to this as well. She called and said, so they live about let's call it a quarter mile up above. Where the tracks are at, and about. That was actually just like a couple of years ago. Yeah, about halfway between that distance is where we had one of our tractors parked at. And she called and said that she had heard or that there had been a guy and. Two kids, a guy and a woman and a kid. A kid, is that what it was. Up messing with the train, and that they were on a tractor themselves or some kind of piece of equipment. She couldn't see what it was. But so they had taken the tracks out this time because they were getting ready to turn it into a trail or no, the tracks were still there. They were abandoned, that's what it was. And that they she went out and said something to them, they took off, and I guess she thought they got on a tractor or something. And we're going back up the up the railroad tracks. And so I'm an hour away at work, and. I don't I don't know remember what you had going on, but you had something going on. I think I was here because I walked up there. And I walked That's what it was. Yeah, And so we called local cops, We called the neighbor. They didn't find anything, blah blah blah. But we did. Find where the grass had been knocked down in the area, but there weren't any you know, direct foot prints, et cetera. We did find where the battery was dead and a cable had been cut, but the cops, I mean, there's no way if somebody was on those tracks, the cops, there's only there's nowhere to get off the tracks between here and where they were going. It was a weird. It was just very weird. And I looked around and everything. And she also said she saw somebody down at Alan's cousins, like on a motorcycle. That's right. She goes, do you see that man down there on the motorcycle? And I said, I don't see anything. And I was like, I'm going to take you to the emergency room because I think you're having. Some kind of reaction, right, and it could have been all that, but I don't know. It's hard it's hard to put your finger. On some of that stuff if you don't experience it yourself, and when somebody's going through something like that, but you've also been through the weird paranormal thing, like it's kind of a fifty the chance what it is. So yeah, yeah, that's that's some of the weirdness up here, and or has been the weirdness in the past. Anyways, you'd mentioned to me when I talked to you for your show several months ago that you and your dad had a weird experience while you were driving on your way to work, and that's yeah, it's stuck with me. I wanted to have you talk about that on this. We've had We had a couple. The first one was driving through well, there were there were three totals I know of, but there were the two main ones. The first one was out in the middle of a place called Stampers Creek in Orange County, really rural area on the highway, and I've seen a lot of weird things on that highway anyways, but we were out around an area called Millersburg and saw something run out in front of the car and it, I mean it was close to the car like I thought I'd plastered. I thought it was you know, your first reaction going. To the middle of nowhere in the winter time, something runs out in front of you here in Indiana, You're pretty sure it's a deer or maybe maybe a methoad. You never know. But I right, I tapped the brakes, you know, thinking that I'd got it, and it was like it took my brain a minute to just sort of be like to register. But what what. I saw looked like, for all intents and purposes, what these people describe as you know, dog man or whatever you want to call it, you know, but it was translucent in nature, and Dad saw the same thing. But it also was it was such a transitory thing like it was so it was so fast and hard to make out any detail, and it was you could see through it. So and there was no more to that experience than that, just you know, Okay, well that's weird, you know. And then not too long after that, coming through Paoli, Indiana, on the west side of Paoli, on the same highway, I saw a dog running. This was this was funny too because of Dad's reaction. I saw it. There was a dog running. It was like a brown like a dog, brown dog or a black dog, like a lab type dog. It was running, it was bounding like dogs do. And as you know, I'm on. The highway again. Here we go. So this dog is running, it's bounding towards the highway. I see it last second, long enough to tap my brake. The last bound that this dog made. It hits the pavement and turns into a crow and flies away. And I didn't say anything, and Dad didn't say anything until we got to work, and I was like, I can't remember if I said her, if he said it, But but. Are we are we just not going to talk about that or. Because it just it becomes a thing, you know, when you when you're open to those things and you see them, it just becomes a thing that happens. And at some point, I. Don't know, I guess sometimes it's Wednesday and you don't want to have that conversation. You know what they say if you see it, No you didn't, No you didn't, right. I've heard that one. No you didn't, right. Now, that was the one that ever since you've mentioned that one, you told me, it's it's stuck with me. And like I for some reason visualized I don't know what it would be other than some sort of manifestation of a shape shift or whatever. But it's just strange that it goes from a dog right to a bird. Yeah, And I heavily, heavily identify with crows, and we use crow symbolism a lot and distilling in our our sort of secret not so secret distilling guild as it were. And so it has some some meaning to me, and I'm sure it was there specifically for me to see, but I don't. I couldn't put my finger on what it was supposed to be, you know, other than maybe just may I think sometimes maybe they're just you just need to be reminded that you live in a divine world. It is a gift, right, So. That's something that I'm trying to piece together to with my own stuff is without diving on into it on an episode order, but like I feel like I'm being shown stuff lately. M yeah, I don't know how to interpret it, like yeah, so it's like kah, So as we mentioned earlier, I just try to ignore it. Well, and I think sometimes you can't put those pieces together until years later, you know, in hindsight again, you know, taking the shot at that thing was probably not the right answer, because I suspect that it was. It was warning us about things that were coming and about about changes in our in our personal world and all that sort of stuff, and I think it was help. It was trying to spiritually help with that growth, even if some of that was frightening, and even if it was feeding off the fear of that. I don't know that it was entirely completely. I wouldn't put my finger on calling it evil, and I wouldn't put my finger on calling it benign. I would say that it was there for a reason, and it maybe the reason may have been divine, even if it itself were indifferent. Mm hmm. And there was a there was a lot that happened during that period of time. After that, That's when your mom's addiction got worse. Yep, That's when my dad got sick. That's when you got the job at Copper and King's. And then we moved in together. And once we moved in together and like we reached that threshold of oh, we're growing up, and you know, we buried my dad, that's when it stopped. It stopped for us in that way, right, It only messed with us one time that I can think of after that, and it was during COVID, and it put the mimic move like, so Alan and Penny, our daughter, were in the basement. But the last time I had seen Penny, she was in the trampoline plane and I had the windows open because it's you know, fall and nice and whatnot. And she lets out a scream like she is hurt, like she has fallen and broken up bone on this trampoline. So I go my klutzy ass out in the back door, lying around the house, look for her. She's nowhere to be seen. She's not in the trampoline, She's nowhere. And so I go to the basement and I said, is she down there with you? And he's like yeah. I said, is she okay? He's like yeah, she's down here playing while I'm working on copper. And I was like, okay, So this is what we're doing now. And I banished that thing. I cleanse the property. I put a barrier line in the driveway, and I firmly told it that it was not allowed to do that again. It was not allowed to pretend to be Penny or Allan or me. An effort to hurt one of us, or I would send it back from whence it came. Not I will tell you a weird when it's naughty. I don't even know if it's entirely directly paranormal, but I feel like it probably was to some degree. And I have a lot of weird story and stuff like this, but this is one I don't think I've ever told anybody. So the first great solar eclipse, North American solar eclipse was that twenty It was. Sixteen. I think we went to me and Mom and corncush Fer and Pennywick to Tennessee and Penny she was just walking good. So I couldn't get off work at the time. I was working over at French Lick, and so. I was here by myself, and it was making it a habit to come home and just veg out and watch freaking Breaking Bad. And now if I'm here by myself, I'll crank the TV up. There's nobody here to complain about her, say anything about it, and we live. I call it the trifecta of death. This is where the character of my life comes from, is growing up in between an active railroad a creek that floods in a. Highway, a fence around the. Yard, right, so you know, car crashes and stuff like that down here, and even fatalities even in the front yard and stuff. It has happened, and it does happen. And sometimes you even. Get weird people who are on drugs knocking on your door early in the morning because they've crashed, And that's the whole thing. But there was. Apparently there was a guy, a motorcycle rider who sort of he rode with one of the local bike clubs, but he wasn't one of them, and he was well. Liked by pretty much everybody in the community. He had went missing, I guess for I don't know, almost thirty six hours or something like that, long enough that the police were looking for him and everybody else had looked everywhere for him, couldn't find him, no trace of him anywhere, They couldn't get him on a cell phone, any of that stuff whatever. And I think that was a it's either a Thursday or Friday, probably Friday, I guess, I don't know. But. I guess they pinged a cell phone and according to the local police, his cell phone pinged from inside my house. And now I'm setting outside on the porch, and at the time, I was doing a lot of home distilling, which I don't do anymore, which is federally illegal and state illegal. Don't have any problem admitting that. I was doing that. At the time. I wasn't selling anything. And I don't think that it should be illegal to make alcohol for your own consumption or the consumption of your family and friends. A big advocate of that, but nonetheless, when you're a legal distiller, and then all of a sudden, I'll never forget it. Set on my porch, I got the fence around the house and all that stuff, and I see two black SUVs pull in, just speeding as fast as they can. I see multiple state cop cars all along the highway. I to this day, I. Swear I saw a cop walk out of the field from across the road. And I'm like, well, I guess this is how it all goes down, and long and short of it is I you know, they came up to the fence to talk to me, and we're looking for this guy and his cell phone ping from inside your house and blah blah blah blah blah, and I'm like, I don't have it. I don't. I didn't even know the guy, never heard the name before, didn't know who he was. And the long and short of it is, I guess he came off the highway embankment over here, which is about twenty foot embankment, on his motorcycle, and he rode the bank down, didn't fall off the motorcycle or anything. And you could see. Where he'd either dropped his kickstands or he'd dropped his foot. What I suspected happened was he came off the highway and didn't realize there was a creek down here, and he was going too fast to stop. And I suspect once he saw the creek realized he was going too fast, I imagine he probably tried to lay the bike down, is what happened, and so he the bike got went down into the creek. The creek was dry at the time. The bike was going fast enough that it went ahead and it it actually on its side, traveled about forty feet north up the creek bank. He got thrown across the creek on the neighbor's property and rolled and died. Now why his cell phone pinged in my house, I don't know. Had all in any way shape or form. But according to them, it wasn't next to the house, it wasn't on the neighbor's property, it wasn't in the creek, it wasn't in the yard. It was in the house. Oh yeah, him, I don't know. They don't tell you stuff like that. I don't, you know. I felt bad enough about that because he. He had to have crash while I was here. Yeah, and I didn't hear it, so so whatever that is. Right that I was trying to say something. I realized I was music. So I'm an idiot. Now the pinging is strange. And this is very completely off topic and probably shouldn't even bring it up. But the whole del Phi murders, you guys are familiar with that. Oh yeah, yeah, very much. So. I worked for the state government and it was the Highway Department. And this is one hundred percent true story. I'm not a bullshit or anything like that. I never have been. It was right after this happened. It was actually the day that had happened. Apparently I didn't like, we didn't know this. One of the crews was sent down to go pick up road kill on the road. That just so happened to be in there, and he had sent a message to the crew leader of a picture of the deer in the back of the truck. So it was just mangled. Could have been like hit on the highway, right, that somehow pinged from the towers or whatever. And after they had found the little girls, we were sitting on lunch in his phone rings the coworker that's sent and it was supposedly he told and again he could have been BS and this I don't know, but he got all weird looking and he was talking to whoever it was, questions and saying why he sent the photo, why he was in that area, and then his eyes were all like big or whatever. And he was telling us when he hung up the phone that that was the police wanting to know why he was sending bloody pictures to someone because it pinged off a tower ah close to that area. So my conspiracy brain goes into the fact that if this was true and he wasn't lying, I don't even know what we're sending based off of we're pinga from a tower. Yeah, and not only there is no privacy. Yeah, not not only that, but if they if they if they believe for one second that the guy that they that they say did. This is the only one involved. Why are they even bothering looking at anything else other than his phone. There's so much weirdness around that case. And I always, I will always go back to this. I'm not saying that guy is innocent at all in any way, shape or form. What I am saying is when they when his lawyer talks about that Odinis thing in Indiana, And I have nothing against people that are into the Norse thing other than that there just so happened to be a lot of a white supremacists. That are into that. And then there's nothing wrong with the Norse thing itself, right, that's them corrupting it. But more importantly, that particular group that he is talking about is very closely associated with the Order. Of Nine Angles. And if there is any group, any Western terrorist group, that people in this country should be afraid of, if they don't know what the Order of Nine Angles is, they should find out about it. It is a thing, It exists. I guarantee you that there are people that you know that are tangentially involved with it or flirting with it. It is for all. Intents and purposes, and an unorganized terrorist faction just writhing with the opportunity to cause chaos. I've never even mentioned this, I don't think on air or on anyone's show, but the guy that they were using to try and get information from, the one that had that fake Anthony shots or whatever, I know that guy because his brother or stepbrother was in a band with me. Yep, yep. So it was like, you after he got arrested for what he was arrested for, in general, it wasn't because of those girls, with the things that he was doing. It was like, I don't even want to be like known to be even associated around that person. Like I didn't hang out with a guy like he'd been to the band practice a few times or whatever, but like that's just disgusting. And what's what's terrifying about all of that stuff too, is that as a practical and spiritual alchemist, and I've mentioned this many times on if you have ghosts and elsewhere, but the tools to implement mass chaos via chemical and or biological means, the kind of stuff that these people are really interested in, they're not hard to come by nowadays. You can buy most of them off of Amazon, and I'd find that frankly, pretty pretty damn terrifying, especially one to realize what some of those people are into. So I've talked talked about that, and I've talked about it lightly like this on a few different shows, and I do and I don't go into depth on it, but I put it out there because I do think it's something and it is in Indiana. There there are definitely people in Indiana involved in this, in this organization. I put it out there because it's something that people should be aware of. It exists, it is a thing, and it's it's even to some degree in popular culture. So yeah, if you don't know what it is, look it up and do some research and just you know, be aware of it. So I knew that the Odinism thing was round, but I didn't know a lot about it. I kind of done a little looking, but I guess when it comes with this whole thing, if they're going to ping phones and I don't, I don't want to start digging into it the right Yeah, why are you looking at this stuff? Yeah yeah, exactly, Well they're going to be sadly disappointed by my phone. It's like, of all the things that I look into and everything else I'm probably already being monitored anyway. Yeah, just from the stuff. So it gets to put out here on my show. Well years ago about the same time all that stuff was going on, and this is this is kind of a funny thing. Maybe it's quotincidental, maybe it isn't. But you know, we were we were heavily. I was heavily involved in plant breeding for ecological systems, organic systems, et cetera, sort of filling in gaps that were lost, you know, there being no native varieties adapted to wider Ohio valley that really still existed, et cetera, and to a whole another story. But I was also pretty outspoken in my anti Monsanto USDA rhetoric with a blog. And I will tell you one of the most terrifying things that's not paranormal, that I ever saw, but we put a we put a hit tracker on our website, and uh, the number of hits that were coming from the Pentagon alone. Was pretty terrifying. Uh. And let's just say that I got invited to something that was international at the time in France and for whatever reason, couldn't could not go as then could not get on the plane to go and uh never was given a reason for that, and as mysteriously as it happened, it mysteriously also went away. So for whatever that's worth, that's that's the fun world that we live in, right. I don't I don't even know if I have a tracker on my website or whatever. At this point, I don't even care if someone's listening. I guess that's yeah, at this point, everybody, everybody said enough. At this point, I feel like I'm a lightweight, now, you know what I mean. It's there's there's much bigger issues in the world than Alan over here in the middle of nowhere of Indiana talking about Monsanto messing with farmers. Yeah, but you know. Two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, Yeah, yeah, that was a little different. So I'm just a small fish in a big pond at this point. Yep, yep. Oh, there's there's definitely people who have said things that are much bigger than anything we've said tonight. For sure, definitely. So we can probably wrap this one up here soon. But is there anything else you want to talk about before we do? I I don't not, off the top of my head. I mean, we've we've got other stories. But that's something that if you, uh, if you ever wanted to get into a into a good set of ghost stories, We've got one from a house up the railroad here sometime that we could tell you if you ever wanted to hear that, and uh, that would be a fun, fun another episode in and of itself, because it would involve a lot of history to go along with it. But now I we appreciate the opportunity to be on here, and for anybody that's interested in anything that we do, you know, the easiest way to track us is through the Alchemistcabinet dot com. You know, if you're a home distiller, for example, or a legal distiller, or somebody interested in the arder distiller and or interested in the accult. Or the esoteric. We've got a practical distiller's almanac for twenty twenty five that's getting ready to come out, and it has you know, it's back in the day every profession had an almanac, right now. There were there were farmers almanacs, planners almanacs, you know, all that sort of stuff, mechanics almanac. So but in our in our research, no one had ever done a distiller's almanac. So we did that, and it's not just a distiller's almanac. There's there will be predictions not of weather, but of potential future events in in that almanac from our friend Jason, from Kim and probably from myself and maybe Chucky Danger. I don't know. We still got to track Chuck you down on that and see. Uh there's you know, there's recipes in there for home distilling, but also recipes for different medicines. There's fairy tales in there. There's all the moon phases, sun you know, the sun signs, and all the standard stuff you'd find in an on the ac there's also you know, a little cunning folk magic in there. Yeah, it's just a fun, little, actual physical thing that you can hold in your hands that doesn't just exist digitally, and that's something I think people appreciate. So you'd mentioned before when we talked about the fairy tale that was something I actually want to talk about at some point too, because, yeah, I feel like I'm going to have you guys back on a few times. There's a lot of things that we can talk about, and I enjoyed talking with you. So yeah, same here, same here, And I love the fairy tale thing man. That's we've been doing that for if you have ghost you know, and people whenever the show comes out, people can go back and check out the two Spook's. I'll tell him that hold on the two Spooky season seasons that we did that we do in October, which is literally just my excuse to read fairy tales and poems and stuff like that. And there's a lot you can learn from fairy tales. And so I have to tell you, because Kim is giving me a look that I have to tell you. We taught my daughter a lesson about fairy tales and what there has learned from fairy tales this weekend for her Halloween party. And I will tell you this as a wrap up because I think you'll laugh in your audience or you'll think we're the worst parents ever wanted. The two So, my daughter and her cousins were plotting to try to scare me during their annual Halloween. Party we have here at the house. And my daughter, who is nine going on twenty five, who is very wise for her age, she wasn't wise enough to realize that when she was tech thing about trying to scare dad during the Halloween party, that the software on her phone would identify that as bullying. And so, you know, it was no surprise to us that she was going to try to scare me in some way, shape or form. And so I had noticed that something was going on because she kept acting a little funny around me a few days ahead of time. And then she started in on this story about this creepy doll and this weird voice and blah blah blah blah blah. And so I'm a good dad, I'll play along with it. I'll let you scare me. That's fine, okay. But she starts in on it, I'm like hm hm, So I let her tell her my story. We were sitting outside. This was the Thursday or Friday before before her Halloween party, and she gets in with her story and I said, all right, well, now I get to tell you a story. So the story I told her there's an old legend from Vincent's Indiana called the good Pumpkin loop Guru. Because a loop guru can be anything. It doesn't have to just be a werewolf. It can be anything. You could be a donkey loop grew, you could be a horse loop grew. And it's a curse and it's a year in a day, always a year in a day unless you scratch someone and draw blood from them and then it transfers to them. So the story of the Good Pumpkin loop Guru is basically that this guy is French fur trappers out in about He's trying to get back across the White River. It's about this time of the year. It's cold, it's wet, it's or any temperatures dropping, rivers flooded. He's got nowhere to go. Somehow magically turns into a pumpkin, which saves him from the flood waters and keeps him warm, etc. It goes back to the village. They don't believe him. They come back, they find this giant pumpkin. Shelley came out of the next day and it's full of golden pumpkin seeds. Really cool story, but for her, I changed it because I had a prank in mind. And what I changed it to was the guy was at the river and. He's shivering, and he's praying to God and hoping that, you know, somehow God will save him and everything. And boy, I sure hope that I don't run into the loop grew. I've heard all these stories about from when I was a kid. And then suddenly from the woods he hears growling and scratching and the bush is moving, and he sort of walks over in that direction to investigate, and it stops, and then someone taps him on the shoulder, and when he turns around, it's a little old granny witch and he says, oh, I'm happy to see you. You know, maybe I could come stay with you. And she says to him, well, where I'm going you can't go, but let me give you something. And he holds out his hand and she drops a pumpkin seed into his hand and scratches his wrist, and when he looks back up, she's gone. Shortly thereafter, he's transformed into a pumpkin to protect him from the weather and the wind and the rain and the floods. But what he didn't realize was that when he transformed into that pumpkin, and it was so comfortable overnight that he was next to a farmer's pumpkin patch, and that next morning, early before it was daylight, before he turned back into a man, that farmer came through and he was looking for the biggest pumpkin there and he just so happened to be it. So I picked him up, took him back home. His wife fixed him breakfast, and still dark in the house, and she starts thinking, well, pumpkin pie sounds pretty good. Let's go ahead and cut this pumpkin up. So she cuts it, and she can't she can't see inside it to tell that there's blood and guts in it. So she also doesn't notice it when it makes a little bit of a noise like a scream, because she thinks it's the wind outside. And so she serves the farmer the meat pie made out of the pumpkin that was actually a man, right, And I just leave it there, and already I can tell I've got worst parent of the Year award coming here, but worth it. So we always carr pumpkins every year, and we have a bunch of kids, and we had like fourteen fifteen pumpkins. And so I got the bright idea that what I would do is I would make a trick pumpkin, which is easy enough. Now you could fill it with blood, but or you could just go ahead and be worst parent ever and you could potentially put some you know, food coloring in there, and then you know, because you need texture. If you really wanted to, a guy could probably go buy some chicken livers. And so I set up my trick pumpkin and I let them carve pumpkins. And I was carving pumpkins with them, and. Of course they're all all the kids too. Yeah. I told all the kids the story, and of course they're all talking about the loop Grew and about how my story's not scary and blah blah blah blah blah. And so I keep putting off the pumpkin. I know that's got it in there, and I took just a little bit of food coloring and put it on the outside of this other pumpkin. And one of the kids is like, oh. There's blood on this one, and did somebody cut themselves? And they're all checking their hands. I said, you know, for people that aren't scared of this loop Grew story, you sure seem a little bothered by it. We're down to like three pumpkins. You guys want to you brave enough to stick your hands in it and see what you can find. They're like, oh, if you go first. So I went first, because I also left the pumpkin guts on top of that one, because all the bad stuff was down the bottom. And anyways, the girl that wasn't supposed to get it is the one that got it. But she stuck her hand in there and pulled it back out, and. You could tell it, really, you know what's going on here, because you couldn't tell how I had done this. And of course my daughter first thing she does is just dry heaths, and I'm like, all right, there's the wind. I've done it. And of course they're like, well you set this up. Blah blah blah. But then they never could figure out how I did it. And so then when they couldn't figure it out, they got a little more, a little more concerned about the loop grou story. I want to taste it. I'm like, don't you dare? And so the girl that found it, she goes back in the house washed her hands, and Kim comes in with her, and when she comes back out, she uttered the greatest words I've ever heard from my property, which are, it's all right, guys, It's just food coloring and chicken livers. I didn't commit bloody murder. And so now my daughter thinks I'm the greatest storyteller of all time. She bragged her friends about it on the phone and all that stuff, so it didn't bother too bad. But I did ask her if she wanted pumpkin pine. She said no, I'm never eating pumpkin pie again. And then all day yesterday she kept asking me, She kept asking me, how did how did you do that? Dad? And I said, well, I took that pumpkin, I put my hand on it, and I said bippity boppity boop. And she looked at me. She was freaking Cinderella. My kids are not I could pull a prank on them like that, but I think they're too gullible. Right, here's a here's a funny story. This was a few years ago, so I don't know if it would still work on them today. It probably would if they didn't know it. But supposedly, if you say orange very slowly, it sounds like gullible. So they tried it, so that'll be uh for anyone out there listening. Yeah, I told all those girls, I said, remember remember this prank for when you get older, so that way you can pull it on somebody else. But I told him, I said, the right way probably to do it would be don't tell the fairy tale. First, just let him find the blood and guts and then be like, oh, I know what this is. I've heard this story. Yeah, so I don't. I'm kind of a My daughter they're cleaning out the guts from the pumpkin in front of the carb the other day and she was a grossed up buy and I was like, don't feel better. I'm kind of grossed out by it too. Like that's just been me in general, like for some reason, like pumpkin guts when I've helped clean it out before, it's just like I just don't like pumpkin. So I'm a very picky eater. I don't eat a whole lot of fruit and vegetables anyway. So I don't know if it's because it's a pumpkin in general and it just feel strange, but like I don't know. Now you're sticky and also a stringent. Now you're gonna be be worried about that. Luke grew pumpkin Man. Yeah, if the pumpkin man comes out after me, then he's gonna have some Yeah, he's gonna get some fists thrown at him. Well, I hear they're pretty they're pretty rare. Old Jack Skeleton over here with a pumpkinhead. That's all right, that's all right. Well, guys, we can wrap this one up now. But I want to say thank you for both coming on here tonight. Absolutely, thank you for having us. Yes, it's always a pleasure to talk to you. We'll definitely have you back on here soon. But for anyone out there listening, make sure to check out their podcast. You want to let them know where they can find it out again. Yeah, absolutely, So that's if you have Ghosts, you have everything and you can get that pretty much anywhere you get your podcasts. I think most people are you know, Spotify or Amazon seem to be the two big ones. Happy Yeah, yeah, I think we're still on Apple. I believe occasionally we will even upload and if you have Ghosts, I'll do more of this this winter. To YouTube to our one piece of time Distilling Institute channel with some kind of cool like Indiana Video of like a creek or a stream or something just you know, nice to to sort of put on the TV. And watch and listen to. Awesome. I will make sure to include links in the show notes for anyone listening. I appreciate it. Well, guys, it's been a pleasure. Thanks for listening out there, but we're gonna wrap this one up, so we'll check you on the next one. And that's the show everyone. I really hope you guys enjoyed the conversations. If you would like to be a guest on tenfoil Tels, remember to send an email to Tenfoil Tales Podcast at gmail dot com or go to the contact section of tenfoiltl dot com. Just get your message to me. We'll get some schedule for a future episode. And just remember the truth lies and the stories we share, the connections we make, stay curiously open minded. Thank you all for joining us on this journey, and until next time, keep questioning, keep seeking, and keep exploring the unknown. Good night, everyone, sands on. Sounds in the Headstones. Yeah, it's turn to rock. Got a story about a crypty creature. Let's take a Luk big foot talk. Then they're out there in the dark. But the truth is out there liking me. It's bark cut both sightings. Got the whole world show conspiracies and folds like a story in the book we control trying to keep us by. It's all gonna use the whole mind. In history. They don't want us to know the secrets they hide since they want show, so they don't society. They keep us in chase. But Sad and Thomas time to break the reins. Control trying to keep us fine, but I'm alone before We're. Gonna use my mind in history. They want us to know the. Secrets they hide since they will show the Madal society. They keep us in chase. I'm saying talk does sound to break the reins